4 ms·

What does "manipulated into needing" mean, exactly? The human race survived without computers for a couple of million years, so obviously we don't "need" them

What does "manipulated into needing" mean, exactly? The human race survived without computers for a couple of million years, so obviously we don't "need" them on an existential level. In your scenario, who gets to decide what other people "need"?

cousin_it 9y ago
For example, you've almost certainly been manipulated into feeling mildly inferior because you aren't young and taking joyrides with friends in your convertible on winding roads by the sea. Or if you're not that kind of person, you might be feeling mildly inferior that you haven't yet built a hobby project that would take the world by storm. In other words, most people spend their lives being unhappy about status of some kind. It's partly an innate need, but mostly manufactured by overexposure to images of abnormally high status people. Reducing such exposure (remember that Israeli law that said models should have realistic body weight?) would help reduce misery. As to who gets to decide? We come up with guidelines and make them law. It's not harder than other stuff regulated by law. Anyone can tell when an ad shows an alluring life instead of selling the product on merit.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  "As to who gets to decide? We come up with guidelines and make them law." Who is "we"? " Anyone can tell when an ad shows an alluring life instead of selling the product on merit." "Product merit" largely lies in improving the user's quality of life.
  - Turing_Machine 9y ago
    Addendum: I'm not trying to be difficult here (well, maybe a little) but I'm wondering exactly how "what people need" differs from "my personal opinion of what other people need". In your opinion, people don't need to take joyrides in convertibles. I understand that. But other people's opinions differ. Why should your opinion be privileged?
    - cousin_it 9y ago
      I'm not proposing to take away the joyrides. I'm proposing to take away manipulative ads featuring joyrides and see if happiness improves. It will either improve or not, that's a factual issue, not a matter of opinion.
coldtea 9y ago
>What does "manipulated into needing" mean, exactly? It means a huge half a trillion dollar industry is leveraging psychology, black marketing, covert paid endorsements, and tons of other things besides, plus plain old brainwashing from constant exposure, to make you crave and buy stuff in general, and stuff that they sell in particular. Just read what kind of research and effort goes in things like the design of a supermarket, self placement, and tons of other things, with measured changes to consumer behavior -- and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The idea that we're some perfectly rational, non manipulated, thinking machines that can decide for ourselves is laughably unscientific.

cousin_it 9y ago

For example, you've almost certainly been manipulated into feeling mildly inferior because you aren't young and taking joyrides with friends in your convertible on winding roads by the sea. Or if you're not that kind of person, you might be feeling mildly inferior that you haven't yet built a hobby project that would take the world by storm. In other words, most people spend their lives being unhappy about status of some kind. It's partly an innate need, but mostly manufactured by overexposure to images of abnormally high status people. Reducing such exposure (remember that Israeli law that said models should have realistic body weight?) would help reduce misery. As to who gets to decide? We come up with guidelines and make them law. It's not harder than other stuff regulated by law. Anyone can tell when an ad shows an alluring life instead of selling the product on merit.

Turing_Machine 9y ago
"As to who gets to decide? We come up with guidelines and make them law." Who is "we"? " Anyone can tell when an ad shows an alluring life instead of selling the product on merit." "Product merit" largely lies in improving the user's quality of life.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  Addendum: I'm not trying to be difficult here (well, maybe a little) but I'm wondering exactly how "what people need" differs from "my personal opinion of what other people need". In your opinion, people don't need to take joyrides in convertibles. I understand that. But other people's opinions differ. Why should your opinion be privileged?
  - cousin_it 9y ago
    I'm not proposing to take away the joyrides. I'm proposing to take away manipulative ads featuring joyrides and see if happiness improves. It will either improve or not, that's a factual issue, not a matter of opinion.

coldtea 9y ago

>What does "manipulated into needing" mean, exactly? It means a huge half a trillion dollar industry is leveraging psychology, black marketing, covert paid endorsements, and tons of other things besides, plus plain old brainwashing from constant exposure, to make you crave and buy stuff in general, and stuff that they sell in particular. Just read what kind of research and effort goes in things like the design of a supermarket, self placement, and tons of other things, with measured changes to consumer behavior -- and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The idea that we're some perfectly rational, non manipulated, thinking machines that can decide for ourselves is laughably unscientific.