6 ms·

Refusing to pay taxes is stealing?! I am afraid you have this backwards: taxes are simple robbery.

by nickpp 9y ago

isostatic 9y ago
Taxes are the rent you pay to live in the society you live in.
- nickpp 9y ago
  Do I have a choice? If not, then I am robbed. I don’t disagree with the idea of taxes, just with the way they are stolen from me and with most of the purposes they are used for.
  - aylmao 9y ago
    You do. You can choose to not live in society. Go live in the jungle, or buy a raft and jump onto the sea; no one will follow you to tax you. Of course, you won't do this, cause you like living with people. You like living in cities but cities cannot run without roads, piers, planning, etc. And you like being safe, knowing if people hurt you or take your stuff they'll be punished, if your house catches on fire it'll be turned off, and if you're out late at night the sidewalk will be lit so you can find your way back home. You have the choice, it just doesn't seem like one because not living in society is just not worth it.
    - nickpp 9y ago
      That is the choice of giving up my money, or dying - during a robbery. I am talking about the choice I have in any free marked: where to spend my money and what to get in exchange. I have none of that when it comes to over half of my revenue: my taxes.
      - wfo 9y ago
        You have a huge amount of choice in your taxes; you can vote, run for office, and advocate for political positions. You have zero choice in your economic situation (if you are 99% of people) since most financial choices are made for you by large companies that you have zero stake in or control over. Is there a difference between someone pointing a gun at your head and saying 'your money or your life' and a company that buys all the water in your region and withholds it saying 'your money or your life'? No.
        nickpp 9y ago
        Have you voted? How much did your vote count? Did you run for office? How much change did you manage to bring? In a company you can also buy shares, vote at board meeting or get a job in and change it from the inside. But that is not the freedom of choice I am talking about. That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. I do not intend to give up the government services, I just want to be able to transparently select the provider and not have to buy them in bulk, bundled together.
        _Tev 9y ago
        > That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. Yeah, the government and the entire social system can change much more easily!
        wfo 9y ago
        >But that is not the freedom of choice I am talking about. That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. Sure -- but at the same time, I bought a product at walmart five years ago, then I decided not to buy there anymore. Why hasn't walmart changed its business practices? I think you're right to say my vote means nearly nothing, but you are missing the point that my purchase means even less. Votes are at least distributed one vote one person; if you accept the financial scheme for decision making you are literally just giving all the power to people who are currently wealthy explicitly. >What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. This is a meaningless choice that only the wealthy can make in the first place. >I do not intend to give up the government services, I just want to be able to transparently select the provider and not have to buy them in bulk, bundled together. I'm not sure what you mean here -- you want government services, but you also want to transparently select the provider. For government services, the government is the provider.
      - aylmao 9y ago
        You can also move somewhere with lower taxes; say Mongolia. It's a 10% flat rate there iirc. My guess is you like living where you do -- and it great part it's thanks to the taxes you pay.
        nickpp 9y ago
        You guess wrong. My country is crappy run by a corrupt, inept government. My tax money have the worst ROI of all my spendings. Have you actually tried to change citizenship? I did it once (and then back). It is a long, gruesome process where you change a monopoly with another. It takes years and it's not always an option. Try giving this "advice" to the people of Cuba, Venezuela or N Korea.
      - enraged_camel 9y ago
        >>That is the choice of giving up my money, or dying - during a robbery. Why do you believe living in the jungle will result in dying? Our ancestors did it, and many people manage to do it today. It wouldn't be easy of course, especially if you're so used to your creature comforts that you lack basic survival skills, but it's definitely not a death sentence.
        nickpp 9y ago
        There are no jungles around where I live. Just forests. And they all belong to the government. My grad parents tried living off their land, but during a time when the government raised the taxes to impossible levels they couldn’t pay and the government came down on them - hard. They lost it all but survived. Others weren’t so lucky.
        enraged_camel 9y ago
        >>There are no jungles around where I live. Just forests. And they all belong to the government. You can live on government land. You just have to move at least 25 miles every 14 days. So basically a nomadic lifestyle. It's doable. People have done it and still do it today.
  - isostatic 9y ago
    move to a country/region with no taxes. If you want the benefits of a country that has decided to charge people to live there, then you have to pay - same if you want the benefits of membership of a club.
    - nickpp 9y ago
      I don’t know of any place without taxes, do you? Through force, governments carved up the planet and each became a local monopoly in its own region. Totally unlike a club, where you have the benefit of choice. Free market vs monopoly, you know.
      - isostatic 9y ago
        Move to Antarctica. I doubt anyone will notice. Live on a boat in the ocean. Move to a Caribbean island like Anguilla or Cayman, or the gulf like Kuwait or Dubai or Qatar Hong Kong, Syria, Paraguay have low tax too
        nickpp 9y ago
        All those places have taxes. Low taxes, but they have them. What you don't seem to understand is that I am not arguing against taxes themselves. Or even high taxes. Of course I would pay lots of money to partake in civilized society and its services. What I want is free market competition for how my taxes are spent and those services received. Because with the current monopoly the government has no reason to improve in any way and instead it takes my taxes and uses them as they see fit - mostly to ensure their reelection. It takes tremendous amounts of money and gives me horrid services. And they have the gall to tell me that this is the only way and I don't need or deserve any other choice! That, in my book, is stealing. Imagine please that there was a smartphone tax. You'd pay a certain amount a year and you'd get a single, government issued smartphone. Compare that with the current free-market solution. Which one is better, which one would you prefer? Now apply that thinking to all other government services. That is my whole point.
        9y ago

Refusing to pay taxes is stealing?! I am afraid you have this backwards: taxes are simple robbery.

by nickpp 9y ago

Refusing to pay taxes is stealing?! I am afraid you have this backwards: taxes are simple robbery.

isostatic 9y ago

Taxes are the rent you pay to live in the society you live in.

nickpp 9y ago
Do I have a choice? If not, then I am robbed. I don’t disagree with the idea of taxes, just with the way they are stolen from me and with most of the purposes they are used for.
- aylmao 9y ago
  You do. You can choose to not live in society. Go live in the jungle, or buy a raft and jump onto the sea; no one will follow you to tax you. Of course, you won't do this, cause you like living with people. You like living in cities but cities cannot run without roads, piers, planning, etc. And you like being safe, knowing if people hurt you or take your stuff they'll be punished, if your house catches on fire it'll be turned off, and if you're out late at night the sidewalk will be lit so you can find your way back home. You have the choice, it just doesn't seem like one because not living in society is just not worth it.
  - nickpp 9y ago
    That is the choice of giving up my money, or dying - during a robbery. I am talking about the choice I have in any free marked: where to spend my money and what to get in exchange. I have none of that when it comes to over half of my revenue: my taxes.
    - wfo 9y ago
      You have a huge amount of choice in your taxes; you can vote, run for office, and advocate for political positions. You have zero choice in your economic situation (if you are 99% of people) since most financial choices are made for you by large companies that you have zero stake in or control over. Is there a difference between someone pointing a gun at your head and saying 'your money or your life' and a company that buys all the water in your region and withholds it saying 'your money or your life'? No.
      - nickpp 9y ago
        Have you voted? How much did your vote count? Did you run for office? How much change did you manage to bring? In a company you can also buy shares, vote at board meeting or get a job in and change it from the inside. But that is not the freedom of choice I am talking about. That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. I do not intend to give up the government services, I just want to be able to transparently select the provider and not have to buy them in bulk, bundled together.
        _Tev 9y ago
        > That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. Yeah, the government and the entire social system can change much more easily!
        wfo 9y ago
        >But that is not the freedom of choice I am talking about. That is a fake choice since it is too difficult, requiring you to change your entire life. What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. Sure -- but at the same time, I bought a product at walmart five years ago, then I decided not to buy there anymore. Why hasn't walmart changed its business practices? I think you're right to say my vote means nearly nothing, but you are missing the point that my purchase means even less. Votes are at least distributed one vote one person; if you accept the financial scheme for decision making you are literally just giving all the power to people who are currently wealthy explicitly. >What I am talking about is the simple choice of free market: choosing who to give your money and for what services. This is a meaningless choice that only the wealthy can make in the first place. >I do not intend to give up the government services, I just want to be able to transparently select the provider and not have to buy them in bulk, bundled together. I'm not sure what you mean here -- you want government services, but you also want to transparently select the provider. For government services, the government is the provider.
    - aylmao 9y ago
      You can also move somewhere with lower taxes; say Mongolia. It's a 10% flat rate there iirc. My guess is you like living where you do -- and it great part it's thanks to the taxes you pay.
      - nickpp 9y ago
        You guess wrong. My country is crappy run by a corrupt, inept government. My tax money have the worst ROI of all my spendings. Have you actually tried to change citizenship? I did it once (and then back). It is a long, gruesome process where you change a monopoly with another. It takes years and it's not always an option. Try giving this "advice" to the people of Cuba, Venezuela or N Korea.
    - enraged_camel 9y ago
      >>That is the choice of giving up my money, or dying - during a robbery. Why do you believe living in the jungle will result in dying? Our ancestors did it, and many people manage to do it today. It wouldn't be easy of course, especially if you're so used to your creature comforts that you lack basic survival skills, but it's definitely not a death sentence.
      - nickpp 9y ago
        There are no jungles around where I live. Just forests. And they all belong to the government. My grad parents tried living off their land, but during a time when the government raised the taxes to impossible levels they couldn’t pay and the government came down on them - hard. They lost it all but survived. Others weren’t so lucky.
        enraged_camel 9y ago
        >>There are no jungles around where I live. Just forests. And they all belong to the government. You can live on government land. You just have to move at least 25 miles every 14 days. So basically a nomadic lifestyle. It's doable. People have done it and still do it today.
- isostatic 9y ago
  move to a country/region with no taxes. If you want the benefits of a country that has decided to charge people to live there, then you have to pay - same if you want the benefits of membership of a club.
  - nickpp 9y ago
    I don’t know of any place without taxes, do you? Through force, governments carved up the planet and each became a local monopoly in its own region. Totally unlike a club, where you have the benefit of choice. Free market vs monopoly, you know.
    - isostatic 9y ago
      Move to Antarctica. I doubt anyone will notice. Live on a boat in the ocean. Move to a Caribbean island like Anguilla or Cayman, or the gulf like Kuwait or Dubai or Qatar Hong Kong, Syria, Paraguay have low tax too
      - nickpp 9y ago
        All those places have taxes. Low taxes, but they have them. What you don't seem to understand is that I am not arguing against taxes themselves. Or even high taxes. Of course I would pay lots of money to partake in civilized society and its services. What I want is free market competition for how my taxes are spent and those services received. Because with the current monopoly the government has no reason to improve in any way and instead it takes my taxes and uses them as they see fit - mostly to ensure their reelection. It takes tremendous amounts of money and gives me horrid services. And they have the gall to tell me that this is the only way and I don't need or deserve any other choice! That, in my book, is stealing. Imagine please that there was a smartphone tax. You'd pay a certain amount a year and you'd get a single, government issued smartphone. Compare that with the current free-market solution. Which one is better, which one would you prefer? Now apply that thinking to all other government services. That is my whole point.
        9y ago