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It's funny how the people of Russia and the US are framed as being such great enemies when in reality many of the rulers of both countries have more common inte

It's funny how the people of Russia and the US are framed as being such great enemies when in reality many of the rulers of both countries have more common interests with each other than they do with the citizens of their own nations.

danharaj 9y ago
It's not an accident.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Putin's utility function maximization calculus is clearly benefited from undermining his own people, and there is a lot of evidence to support that. The US plutocracy is no different. Also a lot of evidence: the actions of the NSA, CIA, War on Drugs, police militarizarion, military-industrial-congressional-complex... All cannot be explained otherwise. I think in the US, they're just a lot more clever at it. However cooky it might seem, there is some evidence coming out that extremist rallies have been organized by unknown powers, possibly sometimes Russian. A lot of the racial tension is probably not by accident. I saw this on the reddit conspiracy sub, and frankly I think it's a good point to be made: https://i.redd.it/lgdyy6dpjyfz.jpg https://i.redd.it/lgdyy6dpjyfz.jpg
  - Clubber 9y ago
    >A lot of the racial tension is probably not by accident. It absolutely is not by accident, not most of it. There are a lot of interests that make money keeping racial tensions high. News outlets are one. Bacon's Rebellion is a very significant historical event that happened in 1676 that still gets taught and still has an effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon%27s_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon%27s_Rebellion The alliance between indentured servants and Africans (most enslaved until death or freed), united by their bond-servitude, disturbed the ruling class, who responded by hardening the racial caste of slavery in an attempt to divide the two races from subsequent united uprisings with the passage of the Virginia Slave Codes of 1705. Indentured servants both black and white joined the frontier rebellion. Seeing them united in a cause alarmed the ruling class, historians believe the rebellion hastened the hardening of racial lines associated with slavery, as a way for planters and the colony to control some of the poor. The reason the ruling class is allowed to rule (today and through history) was because the underclass was divided. Kings would keep nobility fighting with each other and not the kings. The US racial divide is an implementation of the same thing. If poor blacks and poor whites constantly bicker (and worse) at each other, they certainly aren't bickering with the powers that be. Divide and conquer. One of the oldest strategies in the book. Hell, look at what the Hippies were able to do as far as civil unrest with the government in the late 60s. Hippies weren't known to be racist, infact the opposite. That certainly wouldn't do. Enter the drug war.
  - chesimov 9y ago
    Here in South Africa a sophisticated campaign to inflame racial tensions was recently exposed. Notably a UK firm (Bell Pottinger) was hired to achieve this. To cut a long (but fascinating) story short the underlying aim is to fast-track a nuclear power station deal (9 units) with Russia that would put SA in its debt to the tune of >$100 billion dollars. This is common knowledge, reported in local newspapers at this stage. Nobody wants the power stations (nor do we need them); many are calling for free college education instead. Guess what we are going to get.
  - RonanTheGrey 9y ago
    The Koch brothers and associated organizations have also been known to fund both sides of extremist events and encourage them to fight each other. At a glance, I would say pretty much all of today's hot button issues: abortion, race, gender equality, treatment of sex offenders, treatment of prisoners & released felons, terrorism, the current spate of sexual assault accusations... All of it has roots at a level where the rich and powerful benefit from keeping people fighting with each other and begin terrified of the next boogey man instead of paying attention to the "powers that be." And it's simply because the potential benefit of doing so is unbelievably high, it effectively has no ceiling: consolidation of power, finance, and resources as an end goal so that what, 8 people? control almost all the world's wealth, is a pretty compelling reason.
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      Yea. Every election in the US there are the same groups of people that win: https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-goldmans-again-maga/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-gold... It's amazing anyone can see a homeless person and feel disgust, "do something productive you immoral scum!" But see an elite banker and not think the same thing, but worse. Every group of leaders faces the quandry of the ambitions of those to usurp them. That's why tyranny has always been a constant in human history.
RodericDay 9y ago
The substantial conflict of the world isn't the clashing ideologies and geopolitical interests of major states, but the steady repression of the most marginalized by the most privileged and powerful.
godzillabrennus 9y ago
Thankfully. Not to mention that they have a reason to be friendly since we have mutually assured destruction that would ensure the ruling classes will die if all out war ever breaks out.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
geofft 9y ago
We have always been at war with Eurasia^WEastasia.
anigbrowl 9y ago
It's to keep people's minds off a spectre that's haunting the world.
lr4444lr 9y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGC42gUSOZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGC42gUSOZY
- kunimu 9y ago
  Precisely this message. The issue is that there is a strong incentive for capitalists to behave in a certain way due to their material conditions, capital being truly international requires those with international capital interests. The capitalists (or non-capitalists for that matter) do not see Russian, American, Japanese etc., they see a representative of a certain commodity or class of commodities. This is commodity fetishism, in which money acquires a supernatural magical quality within the circuit of capital.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
You know what's really funny? The American political faction with the closest connection to Putin keeps complaining about "globalism".

danharaj 9y ago

It's not an accident.

wallace_f 9y ago
Putin's utility function maximization calculus is clearly benefited from undermining his own people, and there is a lot of evidence to support that. The US plutocracy is no different. Also a lot of evidence: the actions of the NSA, CIA, War on Drugs, police militarizarion, military-industrial-congressional-complex... All cannot be explained otherwise. I think in the US, they're just a lot more clever at it. However cooky it might seem, there is some evidence coming out that extremist rallies have been organized by unknown powers, possibly sometimes Russian. A lot of the racial tension is probably not by accident. I saw this on the reddit conspiracy sub, and frankly I think it's a good point to be made: https://i.redd.it/lgdyy6dpjyfz.jpg https://i.redd.it/lgdyy6dpjyfz.jpg
- Clubber 9y ago
  >A lot of the racial tension is probably not by accident. It absolutely is not by accident, not most of it. There are a lot of interests that make money keeping racial tensions high. News outlets are one. Bacon's Rebellion is a very significant historical event that happened in 1676 that still gets taught and still has an effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon%27s_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon%27s_Rebellion The alliance between indentured servants and Africans (most enslaved until death or freed), united by their bond-servitude, disturbed the ruling class, who responded by hardening the racial caste of slavery in an attempt to divide the two races from subsequent united uprisings with the passage of the Virginia Slave Codes of 1705. Indentured servants both black and white joined the frontier rebellion. Seeing them united in a cause alarmed the ruling class, historians believe the rebellion hastened the hardening of racial lines associated with slavery, as a way for planters and the colony to control some of the poor. The reason the ruling class is allowed to rule (today and through history) was because the underclass was divided. Kings would keep nobility fighting with each other and not the kings. The US racial divide is an implementation of the same thing. If poor blacks and poor whites constantly bicker (and worse) at each other, they certainly aren't bickering with the powers that be. Divide and conquer. One of the oldest strategies in the book. Hell, look at what the Hippies were able to do as far as civil unrest with the government in the late 60s. Hippies weren't known to be racist, infact the opposite. That certainly wouldn't do. Enter the drug war.
- chesimov 9y ago
  Here in South Africa a sophisticated campaign to inflame racial tensions was recently exposed. Notably a UK firm (Bell Pottinger) was hired to achieve this. To cut a long (but fascinating) story short the underlying aim is to fast-track a nuclear power station deal (9 units) with Russia that would put SA in its debt to the tune of >$100 billion dollars. This is common knowledge, reported in local newspapers at this stage. Nobody wants the power stations (nor do we need them); many are calling for free college education instead. Guess what we are going to get.
- RonanTheGrey 9y ago
  The Koch brothers and associated organizations have also been known to fund both sides of extremist events and encourage them to fight each other. At a glance, I would say pretty much all of today's hot button issues: abortion, race, gender equality, treatment of sex offenders, treatment of prisoners & released felons, terrorism, the current spate of sexual assault accusations... All of it has roots at a level where the rich and powerful benefit from keeping people fighting with each other and begin terrified of the next boogey man instead of paying attention to the "powers that be." And it's simply because the potential benefit of doing so is unbelievably high, it effectively has no ceiling: consolidation of power, finance, and resources as an end goal so that what, 8 people? control almost all the world's wealth, is a pretty compelling reason.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Yea. Every election in the US there are the same groups of people that win: https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-goldmans-again-maga/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-gold... It's amazing anyone can see a homeless person and feel disgust, "do something productive you immoral scum!" But see an elite banker and not think the same thing, but worse. Every group of leaders faces the quandry of the ambitions of those to usurp them. That's why tyranny has always been a constant in human history.

RodericDay 9y ago

The substantial conflict of the world isn't the clashing ideologies and geopolitical interests of major states, but the steady repression of the most marginalized by the most privileged and powerful.

godzillabrennus 9y ago

Thankfully. Not to mention that they have a reason to be friendly since we have mutually assured destruction that would ensure the ruling classes will die if all out war ever breaks out.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

geofft 9y ago

We have always been at war with Eurasia^WEastasia.

anigbrowl 9y ago

It's to keep people's minds off a spectre that's haunting the world.

lr4444lr 9y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGC42gUSOZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGC42gUSOZY

kunimu 9y ago
Precisely this message. The issue is that there is a strong incentive for capitalists to behave in a certain way due to their material conditions, capital being truly international requires those with international capital interests. The capitalists (or non-capitalists for that matter) do not see Russian, American, Japanese etc., they see a representative of a certain commodity or class of commodities. This is commodity fetishism, in which money acquires a supernatural magical quality within the circuit of capital.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

You know what's really funny? The American political faction with the closest connection to Putin keeps complaining about "globalism".