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Taxes are not rent. Taxes are the share of expenses you pay for the services and security the state provides. In European countries, especially in the Scandinav

Taxes are not rent. Taxes are the share of expenses you pay for the services and security the state provides. In European countries, especially in the Scandinavian ones it’s commonly understood and agreed upon that the stronger ones carry more of that burden. That may sound like communism to people from a country with a stronger “each for his own good” mindset, but pretty much all statistics point in the direction that it makes for fewer extremely rich people but to an overall happier society. Not having to worry about health care is one of contributing factors. And when looking at the fact that a medical incident in the family nearly bankrupted the last Vice President of the US, you really have to be one of the few insanely rich to be certain that such an incident won’t hit you.

stingraycharles 9y ago
What the parent is talking about is most likely the yearly tax you have to pay over your (already taxed) savings. E.g. here in The Netherlands you have to pay 4% tax a year over any savings over 25k euro. This includes anything like investments as well. The parent is considering that 4% the “rent” after you already paid 52% tax to “buy” it.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  What you pay taxes on doesn’t matter. It’s the part of your income, assets, inheritance that the society decided you have to contribute to be part of it. Call it donation, rent, protection money or stick with a less loaded term and call it taxes.
microcolonel 9y ago
A wealth tax is exactly equivalent to a rent. There is a genuine owner (the state) which has control of the property in a default, there is an unlimited recurring fee set by the owner (the state), and access to the property is predicated on paying that fee.
- Frondo 9y ago
  Of course not. You still own whatever you own, and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever. You do pay tax on owning it, in a system that taxes wealth, but that does not mean someone else owns it. Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true or accurate, though.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    > You still own whatever you own Not if you don't pay the rent. > and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever And when you sell it, you're basically selling a rental agreement. > Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true or accurate, though. Call it whatever you want, I want to actually own my property, instead of having to pay for it on an ongoing basis on threat of deprivation. At the end of the day, the state is the owner, because they are the only ones who don't have to pay to keep it. We can chase our tails all day and nitpick about definitions, but in the purest sense, the government owns almost everything in Norway, if people stop paying the rent/tax/fee.
    - Xylakant 9y ago
      If your definition of ownership is that the state can take things from you because it has the monopoly on power there’s a very sad message I have for you: It’s basically everywhere like that. Try not paying the taxes due on land and housing property in the US and see what happens.
      - microcolonel 9y ago
        That may be the case for most or all land in the U.S., but it at least doesn't apply to musical instruments, couches, computers, and cars (except in some jurisdictions). If the best I can do is pay the wealth tax only on real property, then that's what I would prefer.
pmoriarty 9y ago
"it makes for fewer extremely rich people but to an overall happier society." The extremely rich are still going to be extremely rich after paying taxes.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  True, the rich will still be rich, but the span contracts (lower Gini coefficient) By many statistics, this lower span correlates to a happier society.

stingraycharles 9y ago

What the parent is talking about is most likely the yearly tax you have to pay over your (already taxed) savings. E.g. here in The Netherlands you have to pay 4% tax a year over any savings over 25k euro. This includes anything like investments as well. The parent is considering that 4% the “rent” after you already paid 52% tax to “buy” it.

Xylakant 9y ago
What you pay taxes on doesn’t matter. It’s the part of your income, assets, inheritance that the society decided you have to contribute to be part of it. Call it donation, rent, protection money or stick with a less loaded term and call it taxes.

microcolonel 9y ago

A wealth tax is exactly equivalent to a rent. There is a genuine owner (the state) which has control of the property in a default, there is an unlimited recurring fee set by the owner (the state), and access to the property is predicated on paying that fee.

Frondo 9y ago
Of course not. You still own whatever you own, and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever. You do pay tax on owning it, in a system that taxes wealth, but that does not mean someone else owns it. Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true or accurate, though.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > You still own whatever you own Not if you don't pay the rent. > and can still sell it, destroy it, modify it, whatever And when you sell it, you're basically selling a rental agreement. > Calling it rent and calling the state the true owner doesn't really make sense--you're conflating two separate ideas, I think, to play on people's emotions ("oh noes, the state owns everything!"). It's not true or accurate, though. Call it whatever you want, I want to actually own my property, instead of having to pay for it on an ongoing basis on threat of deprivation. At the end of the day, the state is the owner, because they are the only ones who don't have to pay to keep it. We can chase our tails all day and nitpick about definitions, but in the purest sense, the government owns almost everything in Norway, if people stop paying the rent/tax/fee.
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    If your definition of ownership is that the state can take things from you because it has the monopoly on power there’s a very sad message I have for you: It’s basically everywhere like that. Try not paying the taxes due on land and housing property in the US and see what happens.
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      That may be the case for most or all land in the U.S., but it at least doesn't apply to musical instruments, couches, computers, and cars (except in some jurisdictions). If the best I can do is pay the wealth tax only on real property, then that's what I would prefer.

pmoriarty 9y ago

"it makes for fewer extremely rich people but to an overall happier society." The extremely rich are still going to be extremely rich after paying taxes.

Xylakant 9y ago
True, the rich will still be rich, but the span contracts (lower Gini coefficient) By many statistics, this lower span correlates to a happier society.