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I definitely agree that the over-specialization of emoji faces is ridiculous. However, one question has occurred to me: what has the actual consequence of the

I definitely agree that the over-specialization of emoji faces is ridiculous. However, one question has occurred to me: what has the actual consequence of the skin-tone-modifier been on real-world emoji use? The answer, in my experience, is that essentially no one uses skin-tone-modified emoji at all. This, in turn, makes me wonder if perhaps this was the intended result the whole time—to, in a very circuitous way, ensure that the "default" state of any given emoji has a generic skin tone.

porfirium 9y ago
I am white. Me and my friends use black emojis ironically and "Simpsons"-yellow emojis when we really mean them.
always_good 9y ago
> what has the actual consequence of the skin-tone-modifier been on real-world emoji use? The blog post gave some good examples. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/white-people-dont-use-white-emoji/481695/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/white-p... http://www.businessinsider.com/kendall-jenner-used-darker-emoji-than-her-skin-tone-2017-8?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/kendall-jenner-used-darker-em... I don't think white people use white emoji because being white isn't part of their self-identity. That's one of the normalizing qualities of being the dominant type (e.g. Hollywood). Just like nobody points out that they are heterosexual. I live in Mexico and my darker skinner friends use the color tinted emojis.
- derefr 9y ago
  Now I’m curious whether white minorities in cultures (e.g. in Hong Kong) are more likely to use the modifier.
achilleas 9y ago
> However, one question has occurred to me: what has the actual consequence of the skin-tone-modifier been on real-world emoji use? And how do these consequences lead to Unicode being over/dead as the post title suggests?
GuiA 9y ago
The overwhelming majority of my non white friends use emojis with skin tone modifiers. This emoji business is sticky. On one hand, I agree that the current way is not sustainable - we can’t keep adding dozens of weird concepts like POO WITH CONCERNED FACE every year. On the other hand, if you have a system whose goal is to represent humans, but certain humans feel that it can’t represent them (eg http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/europe/hijab-emoji-teenager/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/europe/hijab-emoji-teenager/in...), then you have a problem.
- derefr 9y ago
  Emoji aren’t meant to represent humans, though, no? They’re meant to represent body language—and it just happens to be convenient to visually depict body language using a human body. Personally, I think it was a mistake to enclose the first smiley in a circle. It turned it from a facial expression, into a head with a face. It was all skeuomorphically downhill from there.
  - trowawee 9y ago
    But if they're representing body language, then they're representing the human body that's communicating the body language. When a family member had some health issues and a friend sent me a text that said "I hope they're ok, and I'll keep your family in my thoughts. :prayer-hands:", that reads (at least to me) as though that person is saying "I hope they're ok, and I'll keep your family in my thoughts. I'll be praying for you and them." The prayer hands emoji is carrying a whole sentence - which, slightly off-topic, but this is why I actually kinda love emoji - and the implication is that it's representing that person, the same way that the actual words "I'll be praying for you and them." would be symbolically representing the person saying them.
    - FreakyT 9y ago
      > The prayer hands emoji is carrying a whole sentence The funny thing is, the "prayer hands" emoji doesn't really exist in the spec -- its use is completely based on a misinterpretation of the Japanese "folded hands" gesture, which is supposed to mean "thank you".
trowawee 9y ago
My experience has been that people who are black, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and some Asian ethnicities use them pretty much constantly. My Japanese, Chinese, and Taiwanese friends generally just use the yellow ones, whereas my Indian in-laws use skin-tone-modified ones. Maybe you're just not interacting much with non-white folks in a context where emojis are used frequently?

porfirium 9y ago

I am white. Me and my friends use black emojis ironically and "Simpsons"-yellow emojis when we really mean them.

always_good 9y ago

> what has the actual consequence of the skin-tone-modifier been on real-world emoji use? The blog post gave some good examples. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/white-people-dont-use-white-emoji/481695/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/white-p... http://www.businessinsider.com/kendall-jenner-used-darker-emoji-than-her-skin-tone-2017-8?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/kendall-jenner-used-darker-em... I don't think white people use white emoji because being white isn't part of their self-identity. That's one of the normalizing qualities of being the dominant type (e.g. Hollywood). Just like nobody points out that they are heterosexual. I live in Mexico and my darker skinner friends use the color tinted emojis.

derefr 9y ago
Now I’m curious whether white minorities in cultures (e.g. in Hong Kong) are more likely to use the modifier.

achilleas 9y ago

> However, one question has occurred to me: what has the actual consequence of the skin-tone-modifier been on real-world emoji use? And how do these consequences lead to Unicode being over/dead as the post title suggests?

GuiA 9y ago

The overwhelming majority of my non white friends use emojis with skin tone modifiers. This emoji business is sticky. On one hand, I agree that the current way is not sustainable - we can’t keep adding dozens of weird concepts like POO WITH CONCERNED FACE every year. On the other hand, if you have a system whose goal is to represent humans, but certain humans feel that it can’t represent them (eg http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/europe/hijab-emoji-teenager/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/europe/hijab-emoji-teenager/in...), then you have a problem.

derefr 9y ago
Emoji aren’t meant to represent humans, though, no? They’re meant to represent body language—and it just happens to be convenient to visually depict body language using a human body. Personally, I think it was a mistake to enclose the first smiley in a circle. It turned it from a facial expression, into a head with a face. It was all skeuomorphically downhill from there.
- trowawee 9y ago
  But if they're representing body language, then they're representing the human body that's communicating the body language. When a family member had some health issues and a friend sent me a text that said "I hope they're ok, and I'll keep your family in my thoughts. :prayer-hands:", that reads (at least to me) as though that person is saying "I hope they're ok, and I'll keep your family in my thoughts. I'll be praying for you and them." The prayer hands emoji is carrying a whole sentence - which, slightly off-topic, but this is why I actually kinda love emoji - and the implication is that it's representing that person, the same way that the actual words "I'll be praying for you and them." would be symbolically representing the person saying them.
  - FreakyT 9y ago
    > The prayer hands emoji is carrying a whole sentence The funny thing is, the "prayer hands" emoji doesn't really exist in the spec -- its use is completely based on a misinterpretation of the Japanese "folded hands" gesture, which is supposed to mean "thank you".

trowawee 9y ago

My experience has been that people who are black, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and some Asian ethnicities use them pretty much constantly. My Japanese, Chinese, and Taiwanese friends generally just use the yellow ones, whereas my Indian in-laws use skin-tone-modified ones. Maybe you're just not interacting much with non-white folks in a context where emojis are used frequently?