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One of the greatest tragedies I know of right now is a complete ignorance about alternative tools for collective decision making. Even in conversations with we

One of the greatest tragedies I know of right now is a complete ignorance about alternative tools for collective decision making. Even in conversations with well educated friends, I struggle to convince people that this is anything more than an obscurity. The deep reality is that many voting systems incentivize polarization. First-past-the-post is a source of the political us vs. them that is so vulnerable to exploitation in the first place! Nicky Case made an excellent game/article about this issue. I encourage you to read it all the way through: http://ncase.me/ballot/ http://ncase.me/ballot/

uoaei 9y ago
This site[1] is linked toward the bottom of the one you posted but I think it deserves special recognition just by the sheer simplicity of understanding the various systems visually in a way that the interactive applet doesn't quite get across. There are nonprofits working on this issue in the USA.[2] Personally I'm more a fan of the push to create multi-representative districts within states than I am about RCV (basically a restricted form of IRV). But regardless, if you want to get involved, call them up first. [1] http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ [2] http://www.fairvote.org/ http://www.fairvote.org/
koube 9y ago
It's certainly true that FPTP doesn't help, but I wouldn't single it out as the primary cause. 70 years ago we still had FPTP and things were not nearly as bad as now, and at that point we had been using FPTP for more than 150 years. http://www.mamartino.com/projects/rise_of_partisanship/ http://www.mamartino.com/projects/rise_of_partisanship/
- indubitable 9y ago
  One thing to keep in mind is population is a factor. Literally every single member of the House of Representatives is either a Democrat or a Republican. In the Senate there are 2 exceptions, Bernie Sanders and Angus King. The interesting thing is that Sanders and King represent Vermont and Maine respectively. Vermont has a population of 0.6million. Maine has a population of 1.3 million. They're the 2nd and 9th least populated states in the country. First past the post isn't awful with smaller populations. With a small population it's possible for people to get their message out without the resources of an enormous party, and similarly not get drowned out by the resources of said parties when running against them. But as population sizes increase the resources of parties become critical. And as voters become more and more disconnected from their representatives, the value of having a symbol by your name becomes much more important than what you actually believe, and in some cases the former actually ends up redefining the latter. In any case the fact that nearly everybody at most all levels is a republican or democrat even though fewer people than ever actually identify as republican or democrat, is something that I would call very strong evidence of a systemic problem in our electoral system.
  - koube 9y ago
    I'm not an expert on this but from a quick google it appears ME and VT both have above average polarizations: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/05/how-polarized-your-state/ http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/05/how-polarized-...
- macawfish 9y ago
  I don't know if it's "the primary cause", but it sure one of the root causes. You can't expect a game of monopoly to turn out like apples to apples. They're different games.

uoaei 9y ago

This site[1] is linked toward the bottom of the one you posted but I think it deserves special recognition just by the sheer simplicity of understanding the various systems visually in a way that the interactive applet doesn't quite get across. There are nonprofits working on this issue in the USA.[2] Personally I'm more a fan of the push to create multi-representative districts within states than I am about RCV (basically a restricted form of IRV). But regardless, if you want to get involved, call them up first. [1] http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ [2] http://www.fairvote.org/ http://www.fairvote.org/

koube 9y ago

It's certainly true that FPTP doesn't help, but I wouldn't single it out as the primary cause. 70 years ago we still had FPTP and things were not nearly as bad as now, and at that point we had been using FPTP for more than 150 years. http://www.mamartino.com/projects/rise_of_partisanship/ http://www.mamartino.com/projects/rise_of_partisanship/

indubitable 9y ago
One thing to keep in mind is population is a factor. Literally every single member of the House of Representatives is either a Democrat or a Republican. In the Senate there are 2 exceptions, Bernie Sanders and Angus King. The interesting thing is that Sanders and King represent Vermont and Maine respectively. Vermont has a population of 0.6million. Maine has a population of 1.3 million. They're the 2nd and 9th least populated states in the country. First past the post isn't awful with smaller populations. With a small population it's possible for people to get their message out without the resources of an enormous party, and similarly not get drowned out by the resources of said parties when running against them. But as population sizes increase the resources of parties become critical. And as voters become more and more disconnected from their representatives, the value of having a symbol by your name becomes much more important than what you actually believe, and in some cases the former actually ends up redefining the latter. In any case the fact that nearly everybody at most all levels is a republican or democrat even though fewer people than ever actually identify as republican or democrat, is something that I would call very strong evidence of a systemic problem in our electoral system.
- koube 9y ago
  I'm not an expert on this but from a quick google it appears ME and VT both have above average polarizations: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/05/how-polarized-your-state/ http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/05/how-polarized-...
macawfish 9y ago
I don't know if it's "the primary cause", but it sure one of the root causes. You can't expect a game of monopoly to turn out like apples to apples. They're different games.