6 ms·

“Why I cancelled my ReactiveConf talk”

21 points by sb8244 9y ago

snewk 9y ago
ok. people can be offended by things that weren't intended to offend them. this does happen from time to time. buy why would the speaker withdraw instead of contacting the event organizers? if it bothered her, she wouldn't necessarily have to go into any detail as to why she found it offensive. she should just chew them out for this debacle and threaten to withdraw if they don't alter the image. this whole thing seems like a poor choice by the event organizers, followed by a poor reaction from a speaker, which led to a poor response from the organizers. you aren't automatically "right" just because the other guy is wrong.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  She wanted to be taken seriously, that undermined it, she has that right. That the organizers responded the way they did says enough: This is not how adults handle situations.
  - drharby 9y ago
    Perspective - if someone photoshopped my face onto pancho villa I could choose to be undermined or be a good sport about it, regardless of how wrong the other party may have been. I will say this, being outraged may vault her into the limelight and accelerate her name recognition, if not for a moment. Almost sounds like an incentive to choose to be a victim
    - aaron-lebo 9y ago
      Or maybe she had a legitimate reason to be offended. You don't get to chose that.
      - drharby 9y ago
        I think you missed my point where i would be offended and still handle it with grace. Oh and to shortcircuit the strawman observation, I've been in many professional situations where my latino heritage is used in a malicious and insulting way which offends me but I CHOOSE a constructive non confrontational conflict resolution that includes dialogue
  - encinotech 9y ago
    The non-adults who are set off by (potentially anything) and then escalate to public forums to demonize others instead of themselves reacting with empathy or resilience then say what adults act like. Funny.
drharby 9y ago
Rather rash reaction after such a self-admitted sacrifice "HALFWAY ACROSS THE WURLLLLDDDDD" which sidestepped the initial reachout and request for mediation. Almost sounds like a bad ben stiller romcom trope of the whole ordeal can be sorted out via a short dialogue. Kind of reminds me of the final scene of jane austins Mafia! Where madam president asks if her husband, the godfather, killed everyone.
QAPereo 9y ago
only to see that the conference organizers had photoshopped my face onto a sexualized image of Wonder Woman without my consent, printed it out, and framed it. Isn’t it just an image of Wonder Woman, in full kit? Moreover, this iteration was recently hailed as a bit of a kickass lady, rather than a sex symbol. What makes this “sexualized” rather than a compliment about being like a Wonder Woman?
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  The problem is that all superheroes can be considered sex symbols, they're all examples of the greatest that people can achieve in terms of attitude, physical fitness, etc. One could argue the whole superhero thing is problematic. (I'm not going to though, I enjoy the movies)
20171026 9y ago
So Eastern European. I was at an Elastic conference in Poland where there were all sorts of ads which would be considered offensive here. Like one depicting a Native American chief in full head dress spouting some vague Indian-ish proverb with a tech slant.
- nnq 9y ago
  I hope you meant it in a good way. There's very very few good things about Eastern Europe. But the "open minded humor" and ability to both take and receive jokes that would offend others is one of the good things. Humor has rarely been "malicious" and discriminative here, like in more developed European countries or the US. EE never actually had things like slavery or serious racial discrimination (the Rroma people are a good example of that actually - they have been so well tolerated that they never actually integrated... not that that is a good thing), and communism actually brought women closer to equality status in the workplace. This made jokes that are "charged" in other places of the world be very OK here. Yeah, it's kind of the "South Park of Europe" so you need to have a taste for this kind of thing to enjoy it. And, unfortunately, it's disappearing... people are getting too thin-skinned and liberal-corporatist there too. And nobody can be blaimed for that either, since pulling towards the opposite direction would be pulling towards the East and that's a no no. Better thin-skinned liberal pro-European than getting even a millimeter closer whatever toxic pseudo-authoritarian concoction is brewing around Rusia nowadays...
  - 20171026 9y ago
    I'm non-white and live in Eastern Europe. I love the humor here. :-D
  - dang 9y ago
    > There's very very few good things about Eastern Europe. The positive intent behind your comment is clear, but please don't post like this to HN. It crosses into, or closely enough resembles, nationalistic attack. Commenting like this about the place you yourself are from isn't, unfortunately, much different in terms of toxic internet effects, so on HN, please just don't. I'm sure you can find a more precise and neutral way to say what you want to say.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
encinotech 9y ago
This should be buried, and I would never invite her to speak again because she is drama. This is a trend of hyper sensitivity that requires everyone to walk on eggshells and wear kid gloves because who knows what could trigger the emotional reaction. Really, think about this - what if a company tries to do something fun, like for halloween, and buys clip-on ties for the guys and clip-on hair ties for the girls, but then someone flips out saying "I'm a guy why do i have to be stereotyped into having a tie, this is so sexist! (and the girls can do the reverse - I want a tie!). It's all just nonsense from people who don't have any emotional maturity, really. Were the conference organizers trying to do the wrong thing? Doesn't sound like it at all. They probably thought "wonder woman is cool, this lady is cool, this image will be cool" and it was actually an act to celebrate her. Instead she flips out. Great, real mature. Then she posts conversations she had with them and demonizes them. real mature. And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complained about being sexualized because now his face is on a shirtless strong dude. These arguments only go one way for people like this. There is a line, of course, and sexual harassment is real. But this isn't anywhere near the line, its not even in the same field. We need to send a message back to her that she is the one being drama and needs to grow up and be a 'real adult' like she says she is.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  You should grow up and learn to empathize with people different than you. It's not hard, you just have to imagine why someone with a different background than you might feel different about events than you do. She's much closer to this event, anyway, so I'm sure she's got a better opinion on it than you. And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complained about being sexualized because now his face is on a shirtless strong dude. These arguments only go one way for people like this. You really don't see the difference between a male being sexualized among a mostly male audience, and a female who wants to be treated as a professional being sexualized? It's not that hard to figure out.
drharby 9y ago
Frankly - I find the thought of $aBugThatThinks to be Offensive!
tzs 9y ago
Did any other speakers object? It looks like they did Sarah Drashner as Supergirl [1], and Daniel Woelfel, Sean Grove, and Jared Forsyth as members of some team that I do not recognize from the uniforms [2]. It looks like they also had lots of superhero stuff, such as models and sets that people could take photos with, and in general were going for a them that React developers are superheros right up their with groups like The Avengers. See various photos and tweets here [3]. [1] https://twitter.com/filipewl/status/923583201100083206 https://twitter.com/filipewl/status/923583201100083206 [2] https://twitter.com/ReactiveConf/status/888016901061922820 https://twitter.com/ReactiveConf/status/888016901061922820 [3] https://twitter.com/reactiveconf/media https://twitter.com/reactiveconf/media
rendall 9y ago
Another speaker withdrew because of what he felt to be the organizers' unprofessionalism. It seems that the organizers were well-intentioned, but lack experience. https://medium.com/@jevakallio/why-i-will-not-be-speaking-at-reactiveconf-6e106b3816a5 https://medium.com/@jevakallio/why-i-will-not-be-speaking-at...
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Honest apology from the organizer: https://medium.com/@ReactiveConf/an-honest-apology-for-peggy-rayzis-from-reactiveconf-lead-organizer-f6efa21a19e6 https://medium.com/@ReactiveConf/an-honest-apology-for-peggy...

21 points by sb8244 9y ago

ok. people can be offended by things that weren't intended to offend them. this does happen from time to time. buy why would the speaker withdraw instead of contacting the event organizers? if it bothered her, she wouldn't necessarily have to go into any detail as to why she found it offensive. she should just chew them out for this debacle and threaten to withdraw if they don't alter the image. this whole thing seems like a poor choice by the event organizers, followed by a poor reaction from a speaker, which led to a poor response from the organizers. you aren't automatically "right" just because the other guy is wrong.

aaron-lebo 9y ago
She wanted to be taken seriously, that undermined it, she has that right. That the organizers responded the way they did says enough: This is not how adults handle situations.
- drharby 9y ago
  Perspective - if someone photoshopped my face onto pancho villa I could choose to be undermined or be a good sport about it, regardless of how wrong the other party may have been. I will say this, being outraged may vault her into the limelight and accelerate her name recognition, if not for a moment. Almost sounds like an incentive to choose to be a victim
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    Or maybe she had a legitimate reason to be offended. You don't get to chose that.
    - drharby 9y ago
      I think you missed my point where i would be offended and still handle it with grace. Oh and to shortcircuit the strawman observation, I've been in many professional situations where my latino heritage is used in a malicious and insulting way which offends me but I CHOOSE a constructive non confrontational conflict resolution that includes dialogue
- encinotech 9y ago
  The non-adults who are set off by (potentially anything) and then escalate to public forums to demonize others instead of themselves reacting with empathy or resilience then say what adults act like. Funny.

drharby 9y ago

Rather rash reaction after such a self-admitted sacrifice "HALFWAY ACROSS THE WURLLLLDDDDD" which sidestepped the initial reachout and request for mediation. Almost sounds like a bad ben stiller romcom trope of the whole ordeal can be sorted out via a short dialogue. Kind of reminds me of the final scene of jane austins Mafia! Where madam president asks if her husband, the godfather, killed everyone.

QAPereo 9y ago

only to see that the conference organizers had photoshopped my face onto a sexualized image of Wonder Woman without my consent, printed it out, and framed it. Isn’t it just an image of Wonder Woman, in full kit? Moreover, this iteration was recently hailed as a bit of a kickass lady, rather than a sex symbol. What makes this “sexualized” rather than a compliment about being like a Wonder Woman?

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
The problem is that all superheroes can be considered sex symbols, they're all examples of the greatest that people can achieve in terms of attitude, physical fitness, etc. One could argue the whole superhero thing is problematic. (I'm not going to though, I enjoy the movies)

20171026 9y ago

So Eastern European. I was at an Elastic conference in Poland where there were all sorts of ads which would be considered offensive here. Like one depicting a Native American chief in full head dress spouting some vague Indian-ish proverb with a tech slant.

nnq 9y ago
I hope you meant it in a good way. There's very very few good things about Eastern Europe. But the "open minded humor" and ability to both take and receive jokes that would offend others is one of the good things. Humor has rarely been "malicious" and discriminative here, like in more developed European countries or the US. EE never actually had things like slavery or serious racial discrimination (the Rroma people are a good example of that actually - they have been so well tolerated that they never actually integrated... not that that is a good thing), and communism actually brought women closer to equality status in the workplace. This made jokes that are "charged" in other places of the world be very OK here. Yeah, it's kind of the "South Park of Europe" so you need to have a taste for this kind of thing to enjoy it. And, unfortunately, it's disappearing... people are getting too thin-skinned and liberal-corporatist there too. And nobody can be blaimed for that either, since pulling towards the opposite direction would be pulling towards the East and that's a no no. Better thin-skinned liberal pro-European than getting even a millimeter closer whatever toxic pseudo-authoritarian concoction is brewing around Rusia nowadays...
- 20171026 9y ago
  I'm non-white and live in Eastern Europe. I love the humor here. :-D
- dang 9y ago
  > There's very very few good things about Eastern Europe. The positive intent behind your comment is clear, but please don't post like this to HN. It crosses into, or closely enough resembles, nationalistic attack. Commenting like this about the place you yourself are from isn't, unfortunately, much different in terms of toxic internet effects, so on HN, please just don't. I'm sure you can find a more precise and neutral way to say what you want to say.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

encinotech 9y ago

This should be buried, and I would never invite her to speak again because she is drama. This is a trend of hyper sensitivity that requires everyone to walk on eggshells and wear kid gloves because who knows what could trigger the emotional reaction. Really, think about this - what if a company tries to do something fun, like for halloween, and buys clip-on ties for the guys and clip-on hair ties for the girls, but then someone flips out saying "I'm a guy why do i have to be stereotyped into having a tie, this is so sexist! (and the girls can do the reverse - I want a tie!). It's all just nonsense from people who don't have any emotional maturity, really. Were the conference organizers trying to do the wrong thing? Doesn't sound like it at all. They probably thought "wonder woman is cool, this lady is cool, this image will be cool" and it was actually an act to celebrate her. Instead she flips out. Great, real mature. Then she posts conversations she had with them and demonizes them. real mature. And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complained about being sexualized because now his face is on a shirtless strong dude. These arguments only go one way for people like this. There is a line, of course, and sexual harassment is real. But this isn't anywhere near the line, its not even in the same field. We need to send a message back to her that she is the one being drama and needs to grow up and be a 'real adult' like she says she is.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
aaron-lebo 9y ago
You should grow up and learn to empathize with people different than you. It's not hard, you just have to imagine why someone with a different background than you might feel different about events than you do. She's much closer to this event, anyway, so I'm sure she's got a better opinion on it than you. And about her point of being sexualized - what if a guy had his face photoshopped onto he-man and that guy complained about being sexualized because now his face is on a shirtless strong dude. These arguments only go one way for people like this. You really don't see the difference between a male being sexualized among a mostly male audience, and a female who wants to be treated as a professional being sexualized? It's not that hard to figure out.

drharby 9y ago

Frankly - I find the thought of $aBugThatThinks to be Offensive!

tzs 9y ago

Did any other speakers object? It looks like they did Sarah Drashner as Supergirl [1], and Daniel Woelfel, Sean Grove, and Jared Forsyth as members of some team that I do not recognize from the uniforms [2]. It looks like they also had lots of superhero stuff, such as models and sets that people could take photos with, and in general were going for a them that React developers are superheros right up their with groups like The Avengers. See various photos and tweets here [3]. [1] https://twitter.com/filipewl/status/923583201100083206 https://twitter.com/filipewl/status/923583201100083206 [2] https://twitter.com/ReactiveConf/status/888016901061922820 https://twitter.com/ReactiveConf/status/888016901061922820 [3] https://twitter.com/reactiveconf/media https://twitter.com/reactiveconf/media

rendall 9y ago

Another speaker withdrew because of what he felt to be the organizers' unprofessionalism. It seems that the organizers were well-intentioned, but lack experience. https://medium.com/@jevakallio/why-i-will-not-be-speaking-at-reactiveconf-6e106b3816a5 https://medium.com/@jevakallio/why-i-will-not-be-speaking-at...

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

Honest apology from the organizer: https://medium.com/@ReactiveConf/an-honest-apology-for-peggy-rayzis-from-reactiveconf-lead-organizer-f6efa21a19e6 https://medium.com/@ReactiveConf/an-honest-apology-for-peggy...