6 ms·

When George W Bush won the election it was all the fault of Fox News and right wing radio. Now that HRC lost the fault now lies allegedly with social media and

by sien 9y ago

When George W Bush won the election it was all the fault of Fox News and right wing radio. Now that HRC lost the fault now lies allegedly with social media and evil foreigners. It's like people blaming comic books, TV, rock music and video games for what they see as the failings of youth. Acknowledging that the Democrats chose poor candidates in Gore and Clinton and that winning three Presidential terms in a row is hard is apparently harder than blaming people for voting the 'wrong' way on some new media development. Clinton spent 1.2Bn and had loads of young people working on media. They probably weren't just telling truths about Trump. But apparently a few hackers around the place were vastly better than them.

abiox 9y ago
> Clinton spent 1.2Bn and had loads of young people working on media. clinton was also under fbi investigation, had wikileaks slow-dripping internal documents, and had a divided party (which clintonites didn't seem all that concerned about at the time).
clinton-uggh 9y ago
Clinton is so unlikable by the masses that we got Trump. The DNC ignored the upswell behind Bernie (who I would voted for instead of an independent) and chose her as their candidate. Even Elizabeth Warren agreed the DNC failed us miserably and again because of that we have Trump.
patientplatypus 9y ago
I get that you don't seem to like Democrats - that's fine, I don't much care for them myself (although Republicans probably even less). However, the problem we are facing today is different than just spin. People are fundamentally trying to alter the public's perception of truth, not just spin or political opinion, and they have found that they can do this by saying a lie loud enough and often enough. And in case you think this is just opinion/spin itself, check this out: https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-pag... There are foreign powers coughRUSSIAcough actively trying to disrupt/damage/destroy our democratic institutions. Considering the ongoing investigations by Mueller we still do not know if POTUS is a puppet, through threat of blackmail or evidence of dirty laundry, to Russian agents. This a real thing. This is important.
- littlebegane 9y ago
  What does the ‘cough’ around Russia mean? I’ve seen people do that before.
- zabana 9y ago
  The whole "let's blame it on Russia" thing is getting boring. At one point, my dear American friends, you'll just have to face the mirror.
  - adamq_q 9y ago
    Thought the same thing until recently. https://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-troll-princess-duped-the-mainstream-media-and-the-world https://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-tro... https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/03/russian-facebook-pages-organized-houston-protest-and-counterprotest-la/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/03/russian-facebook-pag...
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    It's funny that we can't just meet at the obvious middle ground. Russia didn't win the election for Trump, but you are kidding yourself if you believe it didn't play a factor. US democracy has a lot of work to do, but Putin is an ex-KGB strongman who assassinates his opponents and annexes neighbors. It's pretty obvious how he operates.
    - zabana 9y ago
      You are most certainly right about Putin, but that's not the point. You can't just blame censorship and failing policies on a foreign country. What I find truly intriguing is this lack of self criticism on the part of many people in the US. And about annexing neighbours, let's not talk about Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Sudan, Somalia and all the shady things that happened in Central/South America in the 60's.
      - aaron-lebo 9y ago
        Not interested in playing "who is the worst". If you want me to acknowledge the US has done and continues to do evil stuff, well, yeah. My only point is that Russia intervened in a flawed American democracy. That's obvious, the only way to have proper self criticism is to acknowledge that reality which doesn't care about your political views.
adamnemecek 9y ago
You are underestimating things. Comic books were scapegoats but like none of your examples really have an explanation on how they do damage. Like one that isn't based on misconceptions. With social media, the pathway is a lot more obvious. > But apparently a few hackers around the place were vastly better than them. Yes, yes, this is entirely possible. Do you know how? People working during the campaign still do things very much by hand in ways they don't scale. They walk around canvasing etc. A hacker spins up 20 new AWS instances and have a semi-direct access to your brain.
3131s 9y ago
> Clinton spent 1.2Bn and had load of young people working on media. And she just flat out cheated, in a way that was so easily discerned (even before this week's statements from Donna Brazille) that it almost definitely cost her tons of votes. As an individual she is by far the most responsible for Trump, especially considering that her campaign even sought to prop up Trump early in the race! And worst of all, she opted out of a landslide win by picking Tim Kaine instead of Sanders as VP. I have no particular problem with investigating connections between Trump and Russia, but even if the worst of the allegations are true they 1) are about on par with Clinton's behavior in the election and 2) would barely make my top 20 list of appalling revelations regarding American politics. Americans need to step back and get some perspective -- as if the US doesn't do exactly the same or worse in almost every other country on earth.
ern 9y ago
If you are correct, then it's interesting that so much effort is/was put into organized trolling by hostile state actors, if it has no pay-off. Why would that be?

by sien 9y ago

abiox 9y ago

> Clinton spent 1.2Bn and had loads of young people working on media. clinton was also under fbi investigation, had wikileaks slow-dripping internal documents, and had a divided party (which clintonites didn't seem all that concerned about at the time).

clinton-uggh 9y ago

Clinton is so unlikable by the masses that we got Trump. The DNC ignored the upswell behind Bernie (who I would voted for instead of an independent) and chose her as their candidate. Even Elizabeth Warren agreed the DNC failed us miserably and again because of that we have Trump.

patientplatypus 9y ago

I get that you don't seem to like Democrats - that's fine, I don't much care for them myself (although Republicans probably even less). However, the problem we are facing today is different than just spin. People are fundamentally trying to alter the public's perception of truth, not just spin or political opinion, and they have found that they can do this by saying a lie loud enough and often enough. And in case you think this is just opinion/spin itself, check this out: https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-pag... There are foreign powers coughRUSSIAcough actively trying to disrupt/damage/destroy our democratic institutions. Considering the ongoing investigations by Mueller we still do not know if POTUS is a puppet, through threat of blackmail or evidence of dirty laundry, to Russian agents. This a real thing. This is important.

littlebegane 9y ago
What does the ‘cough’ around Russia mean? I’ve seen people do that before.
zabana 9y ago
The whole "let's blame it on Russia" thing is getting boring. At one point, my dear American friends, you'll just have to face the mirror.
- adamq_q 9y ago
  Thought the same thing until recently. https://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-troll-princess-duped-the-mainstream-media-and-the-world https://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-tro... https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/03/russian-facebook-pages-organized-houston-protest-and-counterprotest-la/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/03/russian-facebook-pag...
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  It's funny that we can't just meet at the obvious middle ground. Russia didn't win the election for Trump, but you are kidding yourself if you believe it didn't play a factor. US democracy has a lot of work to do, but Putin is an ex-KGB strongman who assassinates his opponents and annexes neighbors. It's pretty obvious how he operates.
  - zabana 9y ago
    You are most certainly right about Putin, but that's not the point. You can't just blame censorship and failing policies on a foreign country. What I find truly intriguing is this lack of self criticism on the part of many people in the US. And about annexing neighbours, let's not talk about Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Sudan, Somalia and all the shady things that happened in Central/South America in the 60's.
    - aaron-lebo 9y ago
      Not interested in playing "who is the worst". If you want me to acknowledge the US has done and continues to do evil stuff, well, yeah. My only point is that Russia intervened in a flawed American democracy. That's obvious, the only way to have proper self criticism is to acknowledge that reality which doesn't care about your political views.

adamnemecek 9y ago

You are underestimating things. Comic books were scapegoats but like none of your examples really have an explanation on how they do damage. Like one that isn't based on misconceptions. With social media, the pathway is a lot more obvious. > But apparently a few hackers around the place were vastly better than them. Yes, yes, this is entirely possible. Do you know how? People working during the campaign still do things very much by hand in ways they don't scale. They walk around canvasing etc. A hacker spins up 20 new AWS instances and have a semi-direct access to your brain.

3131s 9y ago

> Clinton spent 1.2Bn and had load of young people working on media. And she just flat out cheated, in a way that was so easily discerned (even before this week's statements from Donna Brazille) that it almost definitely cost her tons of votes. As an individual she is by far the most responsible for Trump, especially considering that her campaign even sought to prop up Trump early in the race! And worst of all, she opted out of a landslide win by picking Tim Kaine instead of Sanders as VP. I have no particular problem with investigating connections between Trump and Russia, but even if the worst of the allegations are true they 1) are about on par with Clinton's behavior in the election and 2) would barely make my top 20 list of appalling revelations regarding American politics. Americans need to step back and get some perspective -- as if the US doesn't do exactly the same or worse in almost every other country on earth.

ern 9y ago

If you are correct, then it's interesting that so much effort is/was put into organized trolling by hostile state actors, if it has no pay-off. Why would that be?