46 ms·

What I really want to know is how they got those IP addresses and how did they identify the persons involved? Besides, couldn't you argue as your defense that e

by fmora 16y ago

What I really want to know is how they got those IP addresses and how did they identify the persons involved? Besides, couldn't you argue as your defense that even if that was your IP that you did not downloaded those movies and that somebody probably hacked your wireless modem. Since they are the ones suing the burden of proof is on them right?

rpledge 16y ago
You mean IP addresses of people downloading torrents? It's peer to peer man, if I start to DL the torrent I'll make a connection to you (assuming you set up your client to accept) and I'll see that you're sharing the data. The "hacked wireless modem" (the term by the way makes me assume you're not hardcore) defence is good, but they don't care about that. By the time you hire a lawyer and get your shit together they'll have met their goal: stopping you from pirating their IP.
- rbranson 16y ago
  I doubt they'll take it to trial unless it was a particularly egregious violation. The idea with these is to settle out of court for a few thousand bucks, which is pure profit for these guys. They are like debt collectors. They threaten but have no teeth when it comes down to it. Lawyers cost money for them too.
  - fmora 16y ago
    Frankly I'm not so sure I would settle or even hire a lawyer if I were to face a situation like this. First, I have no assets. I guess they could garnish my wages. Isn't bankruptcy for this. I can get sued for a trillion dollars and it wouldn't matter. Am I being naive?
    - rpledge 16y ago
      I think you're being naive, not that they can extract money from you, but that you value your time so little. Imagine the pain in the ass a lawsuit would be. I know this is part of the strategy of "Big Media", but the real solution is for the content producers to self publish (since the middle man takes too much of a cut and isn't providing the value they used to (i.e. trucking your CD to the store)) However, this doesn't justify that the content producer doesn't get paid if you pirate shit. In the long run I expect prices to drip and content producers to increase profits, but that's still a few years away.
      - fmora 16y ago
        I used to think like this also. Then I was in a car accident. The lawsuit lasted 1.5 years. 99.999% of that time was just spent waiting. The actual work that I had to do during that time was like 2 hours. Mainly one for the deposition. If you go to the judge you expose your case to the judge, it takes about an hour. Of course, this is from the point of view that says you have nothing to loose. Although, I know what you mean. I rather avoid it if I can.
- Qz 16y ago
  That's not their goal - USCG is in it for the money.
boredguy8 16y ago
Coming up with a 'just-so' story is not defense. They have evidence that links you to the crime when the standard is merely 'preponderance of the evidence'. Unless you have evidence that rebuts theirs, you're 'maybe a hacker did it' will be up there with 'maybe my sister did it'. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/songs-of-innocence.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/songs-of-inn... highlights some other confused responses.
- lutorm 16y ago
  If my car is seen leaving the scene of an accident, can I be sued for damages because the car is registered to me even though everyone in the family uses it? It seems they need SOMETHING that ties it to me. What if it was my sister? Or my mother? They have evidence that links me to the crime but the same evidence links several other people to the same degree. Is that really a "preponderance of evidence"? It seems at most they could use the IP to get a search warrant and look through the computers to try to find some actual evidence. Besides, is it really a crime to download a movie when they don't know if any of it was actually saved? Just because the bits were sent down the pipe doesn't mean that I received them. It's as if someone reading a book to me makes me liable for copyright infringement on the presumption that I must have been writing down what was read.
  - boredguy8 16y ago
    "If my car is seen leaving the scene of an accident, can I be sued for damages because the car is registered to me even though everyone in the family uses it?" Yes. You'd defend yourself by providing evidence as to who was actually driving it at the time. So, for instance, if your car is seen fleeing the scene of an accident, but you reported it stolen the day before, you would have a defense. Or if your sister admitted to driving your car, but then she'd be on the hook. "It seems they need SOMETHING that ties it to me. What if it was my sister?" There is: you're the account holder for the broadband account that was downloading the movie. That is something. And it doesn't link several other people 'to the same degree'. If you have logs on your router that how it was your sister's computer on the router that was uploading the movie, then so be it. "It seems at most they could use the IP to get a search warrant and look through the computers to try to find some actual evidence." This is what they will do if you don't settle. "Besides, is it really a crime to download a movie when they don't know if any of it was actually saved?" This is why people should not play lawyer: the charges (for every instance I'm aware of, and certainly the popular USCG cases) are for illegal distribution, not illegal download.
chopsueyar 16y ago
Also, how is it determined that the downloaded file is actually the copyrighted content in question? And, how is it determined the infringer has downloaded enough of the file to infringe? Due process still exists. Also, depending on your state, you can file suit against the law firm for defamation.

by fmora 16y ago

rpledge 16y ago

You mean IP addresses of people downloading torrents? It's peer to peer man, if I start to DL the torrent I'll make a connection to you (assuming you set up your client to accept) and I'll see that you're sharing the data. The "hacked wireless modem" (the term by the way makes me assume you're not hardcore) defence is good, but they don't care about that. By the time you hire a lawyer and get your shit together they'll have met their goal: stopping you from pirating their IP.

rbranson 16y ago
I doubt they'll take it to trial unless it was a particularly egregious violation. The idea with these is to settle out of court for a few thousand bucks, which is pure profit for these guys. They are like debt collectors. They threaten but have no teeth when it comes down to it. Lawyers cost money for them too.
- fmora 16y ago
  Frankly I'm not so sure I would settle or even hire a lawyer if I were to face a situation like this. First, I have no assets. I guess they could garnish my wages. Isn't bankruptcy for this. I can get sued for a trillion dollars and it wouldn't matter. Am I being naive?
  - rpledge 16y ago
    I think you're being naive, not that they can extract money from you, but that you value your time so little. Imagine the pain in the ass a lawsuit would be. I know this is part of the strategy of "Big Media", but the real solution is for the content producers to self publish (since the middle man takes too much of a cut and isn't providing the value they used to (i.e. trucking your CD to the store)) However, this doesn't justify that the content producer doesn't get paid if you pirate shit. In the long run I expect prices to drip and content producers to increase profits, but that's still a few years away.
    - fmora 16y ago
      I used to think like this also. Then I was in a car accident. The lawsuit lasted 1.5 years. 99.999% of that time was just spent waiting. The actual work that I had to do during that time was like 2 hours. Mainly one for the deposition. If you go to the judge you expose your case to the judge, it takes about an hour. Of course, this is from the point of view that says you have nothing to loose. Although, I know what you mean. I rather avoid it if I can.
Qz 16y ago
That's not their goal - USCG is in it for the money.

boredguy8 16y ago

Coming up with a 'just-so' story is not defense. They have evidence that links you to the crime when the standard is merely 'preponderance of the evidence'. Unless you have evidence that rebuts theirs, you're 'maybe a hacker did it' will be up there with 'maybe my sister did it'. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/songs-of-innocence.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/songs-of-inn... highlights some other confused responses.

lutorm 16y ago
If my car is seen leaving the scene of an accident, can I be sued for damages because the car is registered to me even though everyone in the family uses it? It seems they need SOMETHING that ties it to me. What if it was my sister? Or my mother? They have evidence that links me to the crime but the same evidence links several other people to the same degree. Is that really a "preponderance of evidence"? It seems at most they could use the IP to get a search warrant and look through the computers to try to find some actual evidence. Besides, is it really a crime to download a movie when they don't know if any of it was actually saved? Just because the bits were sent down the pipe doesn't mean that I received them. It's as if someone reading a book to me makes me liable for copyright infringement on the presumption that I must have been writing down what was read.
- boredguy8 16y ago
  "If my car is seen leaving the scene of an accident, can I be sued for damages because the car is registered to me even though everyone in the family uses it?" Yes. You'd defend yourself by providing evidence as to who was actually driving it at the time. So, for instance, if your car is seen fleeing the scene of an accident, but you reported it stolen the day before, you would have a defense. Or if your sister admitted to driving your car, but then she'd be on the hook. "It seems they need SOMETHING that ties it to me. What if it was my sister?" There is: you're the account holder for the broadband account that was downloading the movie. That is something. And it doesn't link several other people 'to the same degree'. If you have logs on your router that how it was your sister's computer on the router that was uploading the movie, then so be it. "It seems at most they could use the IP to get a search warrant and look through the computers to try to find some actual evidence." This is what they will do if you don't settle. "Besides, is it really a crime to download a movie when they don't know if any of it was actually saved?" This is why people should not play lawyer: the charges (for every instance I'm aware of, and certainly the popular USCG cases) are for illegal distribution, not illegal download.

chopsueyar 16y ago

Also, how is it determined that the downloaded file is actually the copyrighted content in question? And, how is it determined the infringer has downloaded enough of the file to infringe? Due process still exists. Also, depending on your state, you can file suit against the law firm for defamation.