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And another way of looking at things is this problem would not exist if the government did not pass special rules that affect student loans, and only student lo

And another way of looking at things is this problem would not exist if the government did not pass special rules that affect student loans, and only student loans. I think there are lots of sources of failure that lead up to the problem, but the vast majority are of good intentions. It's not hard to see why the government decided to create special rules. It enabled lenders to all but completely ensure profit on loans meaning that anybody would have access to university, regardless of financial background. And that's a good thing. Parents and teachers are also acting with good intentions. I would fully recommend college to anybody. I would certainly recommend move to Europe for it now a days, but the value of an education is immense. Access to the resources (physical, personnel, and intangible) of a campus is something that can open up vast new possibilities for an individual. And being around a more competitive group of individuals than you'd experience in high school can help ensure people stand a better chance of reaching their full potential. And then there are employers. Today in the US it's somewhat paradoxical that we have a genuinely low unemployment rate yet also most decent job offers get more resumes than employers can handle. All other things being equal, a person with a college background is going to be more desirable than somebody without one. So why not require it and cut those CVs down to a more manageable size? Perhaps the only people acting in bad faith are lenders. But like you mentioned they're just opportunists. And cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug. They're not exploiting anybody. They're providing equal access to education for everybody in mutually beneficial agreements. At least that's what they'll convince themselves of. What I'm getting at here is that trying to point fingers at one person or another isn't really productive. Who cares who's fault it is? There's a problem that needs fixing is all that matters.

moduspol 9y ago
> Who cares who's fault it is? There's a problem that needs fixing is all that matters. I care. We can't properly address the problem or learn from our mistakes if we don't know the cause. We had colleges before federal student loan subsidies. Our parents went to school and paid for tuition with part time jobs. Then we had them, and decades later, the chickens have come home to roost. This is not rocket science--it's Economics 101. We are letting bad ideas off the hook by not focusing on what the problem is, and as long as we let people pass blame, we can expect to continue seeing it again and again.
- indubitable 9y ago
  Determining a cause and attributing responsibility are not the same. One can argue that just about everybody is responsible: - Government giving special laws that are able to be abused. - Lenders utilizing said laws to maximize their personal benefit - Universities raising costs far outside of any notion of need - Students taking out loans they can't repay - Parents/schools encouraging students to go to college, even for low value degrees - Employers requiring degrees for jobs that don't really require them. And while each of these can be attacked, they can be just as easily defended. When you try to attribute blame, it's going to end up being horribly subjective and more like to turn into a witch hunt than anything else. And it's also going to be incredibly partisan. For instance people who chose to not attend university would completely understandably prefer to blame students. Students who went to university would probably prefer to blame universities or lenders. Who's right? There's no objective answer. What is clear is the cause of the problem -- students are taking out loans that will not be able to be reasonably paid back. And so too are there plenty of solutions. Blame plays no part other than to divide people.
  - moduspol 9y ago
    Sure--I read the parent comment. I have no doubt there will always be someone else people blame when liberal policies fail, but lenders, universities, students, parents, and employers acting rationally in their own self-interest is not some strange unforeseeable possibility. We have to be able to acknowledge when bad ideas don't work well. This is one of those times.
    - indubitable 9y ago
      Ah okay! I must have misunderstood you. The implication (to me) of seeking to attribute blame was the typical game of trying to pick the most apparently malevolent actor, not actually thinking about why we failed to foresee quite foreseeable consequences in the past. I'd completely agree that trying to figure out why we didn't foresee this (to help us prevent making such mistakes in the future) would be very helpful.

moduspol 9y ago

> Who cares who's fault it is? There's a problem that needs fixing is all that matters. I care. We can't properly address the problem or learn from our mistakes if we don't know the cause. We had colleges before federal student loan subsidies. Our parents went to school and paid for tuition with part time jobs. Then we had them, and decades later, the chickens have come home to roost. This is not rocket science--it's Economics 101. We are letting bad ideas off the hook by not focusing on what the problem is, and as long as we let people pass blame, we can expect to continue seeing it again and again.

indubitable 9y ago
Determining a cause and attributing responsibility are not the same. One can argue that just about everybody is responsible: - Government giving special laws that are able to be abused. - Lenders utilizing said laws to maximize their personal benefit - Universities raising costs far outside of any notion of need - Students taking out loans they can't repay - Parents/schools encouraging students to go to college, even for low value degrees - Employers requiring degrees for jobs that don't really require them. And while each of these can be attacked, they can be just as easily defended. When you try to attribute blame, it's going to end up being horribly subjective and more like to turn into a witch hunt than anything else. And it's also going to be incredibly partisan. For instance people who chose to not attend university would completely understandably prefer to blame students. Students who went to university would probably prefer to blame universities or lenders. Who's right? There's no objective answer. What is clear is the cause of the problem -- students are taking out loans that will not be able to be reasonably paid back. And so too are there plenty of solutions. Blame plays no part other than to divide people.
- moduspol 9y ago
  Sure--I read the parent comment. I have no doubt there will always be someone else people blame when liberal policies fail, but lenders, universities, students, parents, and employers acting rationally in their own self-interest is not some strange unforeseeable possibility. We have to be able to acknowledge when bad ideas don't work well. This is one of those times.
  - indubitable 9y ago
    Ah okay! I must have misunderstood you. The implication (to me) of seeking to attribute blame was the typical game of trying to pick the most apparently malevolent actor, not actually thinking about why we failed to foresee quite foreseeable consequences in the past. I'd completely agree that trying to figure out why we didn't foresee this (to help us prevent making such mistakes in the future) would be very helpful.