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A response: http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=295 http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=295 "By the way, vice in any form is self-reinforcing, as he suggests. Ancient

A response: http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=295 http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=295 "By the way, vice in any form is self-reinforcing, as he suggests. Ancient moralists realized it; modern “mental health” professionals do, too. The behavior of poor people is often that of simple vice. It is not new, nor are the traps involved. Example? Think of becoming fat: the fatter you get, the harder it is to exercise, the less incentive you have to exercise; the less you exercise, the fatter you get. You get caught in a feedback loop that spirals into imbalance and self-destruction. Sloth and gluttony (the old terms for two major causes of being overweight) are not new nor are they hard to understand." (Please note that I am not agreeing with or endorsing this opinion, merely providing a link)

rml 19y ago
Classifying poverty as vice is worthwhile to a point, but works well only in very general ways (I know it wasn't your opinion, it's just worth discussing). The main problem that I see with that view, however, is this: Take a 12-year-old kid in middle school. Let's assume he is bright enough to do well, if he did the homework, etc. He goes home every day to a dirty house, where he spends hours by himself playing video games. His mother is at work earning an hourly wage, and when she gets home, she is bitter and sarcastic. His father is gone. There isn't enough money to pay the bills, so the phone, tv, etc. are constantly being turned on and off (i.e., general chaos). At his suburban middle school, he has to endure the humiliation of being pushed toward lower-status "vocational" programs despite his (at least average) ability, because of his poor attitude, laziness and the fact that his family is known in his hometown as being somewhat "troubled." It is only natural that a young person in such a situation might become disinclined to work hard, because he doesn't know what the point of "working hard" is. In his world, and the world of his family, "working hard" just means putting in more hours that enrich someone else. He hasn't been exposed to any other ways of life, and the well-to-do telling him that he's "lazy" probably won't serve to motivate. Having said all that, there is nothing stopping this person from realizing the error of his ways as an adult and acting accordingly. Luckily, we have many examples of successful "late bloomers" available to us these days, but I think for many kids the damage will have been permanent.
- llimllib 19y ago
  And, furthermore, being stereotyped as a poor person will (in a statistical sense) make him act more as a poor person is stereotyped to act: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=how-stereotyping-yourself-contributes-to-success&print=true http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=how-stereotyping-yoursel... . (No worries about discussing it, I was hoping to discuss it. I just get paranoid that everyone assumes that I believe every word of every link I post)

rml 19y ago

Classifying poverty as vice is worthwhile to a point, but works well only in very general ways (I know it wasn't your opinion, it's just worth discussing). The main problem that I see with that view, however, is this: Take a 12-year-old kid in middle school. Let's assume he is bright enough to do well, if he did the homework, etc. He goes home every day to a dirty house, where he spends hours by himself playing video games. His mother is at work earning an hourly wage, and when she gets home, she is bitter and sarcastic. His father is gone. There isn't enough money to pay the bills, so the phone, tv, etc. are constantly being turned on and off (i.e., general chaos). At his suburban middle school, he has to endure the humiliation of being pushed toward lower-status "vocational" programs despite his (at least average) ability, because of his poor attitude, laziness and the fact that his family is known in his hometown as being somewhat "troubled." It is only natural that a young person in such a situation might become disinclined to work hard, because he doesn't know what the point of "working hard" is. In his world, and the world of his family, "working hard" just means putting in more hours that enrich someone else. He hasn't been exposed to any other ways of life, and the well-to-do telling him that he's "lazy" probably won't serve to motivate. Having said all that, there is nothing stopping this person from realizing the error of his ways as an adult and acting accordingly. Luckily, we have many examples of successful "late bloomers" available to us these days, but I think for many kids the damage will have been permanent.

llimllib 19y ago
And, furthermore, being stereotyped as a poor person will (in a statistical sense) make him act more as a poor person is stereotyped to act: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=how-stereotyping-yourself-contributes-to-success&print=true http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=how-stereotyping-yoursel... . (No worries about discussing it, I was hoping to discuss it. I just get paranoid that everyone assumes that I believe every word of every link I post)