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If We Can’t Talk About Sex, We Can’t Stop Sexual Abuse

13 points by uladzislau 9y ago

dogruck 9y ago
One fundamental problem is that many people are aroused by the unspeakable.
- rosser 9y ago
  Please be more specific than that. I think you might have a point worth discussing, but your comment is ambiguous to the point of opacity, and The Fine Article is calling for the ability to talk explicitly (though not necessarily vulgarly) about these things.
  - dogruck 9y ago
    Sure, I can elaborate. Most simply, many people are aroused by actions only if they don’t discuss it. Maybe a woman likes to be spanked with a belt — but not if she has to ask, “please spank me with a belt.” Then, there are the multitude of illicit fantasies. Sex with the boss on his desk, with the door closed, while the rest of the office works. Sex with the neighbor’s wife. 50 Shades was a blockbuster. Briefly, for many people, when it comes to sex, very bad is very good.
    - rosser 9y ago
      Those things aren't unspeakable, though. They're things we may (many do) have shame — or at least discomfort talking openly — about, but that's definitely surmountable, if perhaps uncomfortably so. My current partner and I have very frank discussions about sex and fantasy and stuff. We've talked about things that are pretty far outside social norms, because we've explicitly agreed to engage from a place of not judging one another for our fantasies — particularly those that might somehow be transgressive. Yes, it's risky. Very. The outcome of having taken that risk includes a deeper understanding of one another, greater acceptance of one another, and some surprise, "Oh, you're into that, too?" that might never have happened if we hadn't decided to play that way (and, of course, an opportunity to explore those things). Someone who has a desire or fantasy that they want fulfilled without having to have that conversation with their partner is either delusional or in for some disappointment. Or, more likely, both.
      - dogruck 9y ago
        Here’s a nice story from the New York Times that might shed some light on what I’m trying to describe: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-spanking-fetish-is-not-revealed-easily.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-span...
Mz 9y ago
This article oversimplifies the problem. It is also naive. Talking about sex tends to be inherently titillating and an intimate bonding process. Even if you are extremely comfortable with the topic, it is unwise and counterproductive to make it too normal to talk about sex with coworkers, even if the stated goal is to shut down predators. What we really need to be talking about is how to create an intentionally platonic coed work environment. We need to be actively looking to create a norm where any such transgressions stand out and are easy to weed out. We need to eliminate a lot of grey areas and create clarity around the idea that most work relationships are strictly platonic. We need to stop saying that a meeting behind closed doors is private and start saying that such privacy is simply inappropriate to a working relationship.
- xiphias 9y ago
  Sounds like 1984

13 points by uladzislau 9y ago

dogruck 9y ago

One fundamental problem is that many people are aroused by the unspeakable.

rosser 9y ago
Please be more specific than that. I think you might have a point worth discussing, but your comment is ambiguous to the point of opacity, and The Fine Article is calling for the ability to talk explicitly (though not necessarily vulgarly) about these things.
- dogruck 9y ago
  Sure, I can elaborate. Most simply, many people are aroused by actions only if they don’t discuss it. Maybe a woman likes to be spanked with a belt — but not if she has to ask, “please spank me with a belt.” Then, there are the multitude of illicit fantasies. Sex with the boss on his desk, with the door closed, while the rest of the office works. Sex with the neighbor’s wife. 50 Shades was a blockbuster. Briefly, for many people, when it comes to sex, very bad is very good.
  - rosser 9y ago
    Those things aren't unspeakable, though. They're things we may (many do) have shame — or at least discomfort talking openly — about, but that's definitely surmountable, if perhaps uncomfortably so. My current partner and I have very frank discussions about sex and fantasy and stuff. We've talked about things that are pretty far outside social norms, because we've explicitly agreed to engage from a place of not judging one another for our fantasies — particularly those that might somehow be transgressive. Yes, it's risky. Very. The outcome of having taken that risk includes a deeper understanding of one another, greater acceptance of one another, and some surprise, "Oh, you're into that, too?" that might never have happened if we hadn't decided to play that way (and, of course, an opportunity to explore those things). Someone who has a desire or fantasy that they want fulfilled without having to have that conversation with their partner is either delusional or in for some disappointment. Or, more likely, both.
    - dogruck 9y ago
      Here’s a nice story from the New York Times that might shed some light on what I’m trying to describe: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-spanking-fetish-is-not-revealed-easily.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-span...

Mz 9y ago

This article oversimplifies the problem. It is also naive. Talking about sex tends to be inherently titillating and an intimate bonding process. Even if you are extremely comfortable with the topic, it is unwise and counterproductive to make it too normal to talk about sex with coworkers, even if the stated goal is to shut down predators. What we really need to be talking about is how to create an intentionally platonic coed work environment. We need to be actively looking to create a norm where any such transgressions stand out and are easy to weed out. We need to eliminate a lot of grey areas and create clarity around the idea that most work relationships are strictly platonic. We need to stop saying that a meeting behind closed doors is private and start saying that such privacy is simply inappropriate to a working relationship.

xiphias 9y ago
Sounds like 1984