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(UI) Designers don't want to work for free. This is more or less the observation I made in regards for Open Source software. Having some side projects or helpi

by gsich 9y ago

(UI) Designers don't want to work for free. This is more or less the observation I made in regards for Open Source software. Having some side projects or helping OSS is somewhat expected from a programmer. From other professions not so much.

themodelplumber 9y ago
I did some free UI design for a game I found on the Pygame site a while back. At the time I was gainfully employed as a graphic designer, UI designer, and illustrator. The artwork was gratefully received and I had a fun time working with the software developer. Here's what I think made it go well: - High visibility: The game was featured in the website sidebar. So I thought it'd be neat to contribute. - Easy as HTML: Extract game zip file, edit Python files in a text editor, plug in my own filenames instead of the default ones. Start game, see my graphics. - Developer was very open and friendly. Just an IT guy with a hobby. - I knew about the Pygame website already because I followed FOSS stuff. I don't know how many UI designers are browsing sites like that, but my guess is not many. But imagine if they did: what are the chances their workflow would be as easy as it was for me? In a compiled language, forget it. I remember a few years back when suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do. So it's far from inviting in many ways for a UI person, though I don't mean to suggest they couldn't hack it if they wanted to.
- chao- 9y ago
  > ...suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do. What about it do they hate? I ask as a non-designer, to whom their perspective may be foreign.
  - untog 9y ago
    Github is a code management tool, so it isn’t too surprising that designers aren’t fond of it. Imagine code diffs, but for visual designs instead. Showing you which palette colors have changed, which margins have been tweaked etc. - Github doesn’t do any of that.
    - TylerE 9y ago
      How could it? Do you expect them to run some sort of headless Photoshop VM?
      - untog 9y ago
        I don’t know, that wasn’t the question. In any case, is it that insane to imagine a visual diff tool? Illustrator files are basically just SVG, it’s all very parseable.
        adrianN 9y ago
        Write one and become rich. There are tons of graphical tools that lack a proper diff. Just lock at all the CASE tools.
      - jcelerier 9y ago
        well, it's able to display 3d files and images, so why not add some viewers for diffs ? https://github.com/makezonefablab/MakersBook01_MusicBox/commit/498ddea73e4c333bae6ee76ecfdf64c8676f62ae https://github.com/makezonefablab/MakersBook01_MusicBox/comm...
        TylerE 9y ago
        There's a huge difference between displaying a simple, well documented open format and handling proprietary binary formats.
        jcelerier 9y ago
        But there are plenty of libre software which are able to open a very large set of PSDs. Even if not everything was working perfectly, it would still be a good starting point. https://gist.github.com/ocornut/52a4b9c679ed670851e7 https://gist.github.com/ocornut/52a4b9c679ed670851e7
        jononor 9y ago
        Github diffs PNG and SVG images I believe. In general one should not use PSD in an open source project, because it requires costly proprietary software. Also does not run on Linux
  - themodelplumber 9y ago
    They would show up wanting to find a download, and GutHub's UI was not set up like a typical private software website with a big "Download" button or menu item. It was off to the side, and I believe it said "Clone or Download", and these people are thinking, "is this some insider speak--am I at the right site?" And if you were just downloading, pretty soon you got told that you were ripping yourself off because downloading was so '80s, just clone the repo... Anyway you get the idea. All of a sudden tons of helpful UI resources were intermeshed with this GitHub ecosphere instead of living elsewhere, like on a lovingly-designed personal website with a pleasant UI that had not been mingled with versioning software.
_phaq 9y ago
Well, most design people also have side projects, be it a Tumblr page or an endless supply of drawings that they just do to improve their drawing skills. But that's different from helping an (OSS) application look good. For that, you have to make tons of mockups, iterate again and again, until you have something that looks good and consistent across the entire application. Ideally, you'd also want at least one other person to bounce ideas back and forth, and have an opinion about what you're doing. This is real work, which requires a lot of commitment upfront. The equivalent of requiring a programmer to lay out the entire architecture before they write a single line of code. That's also something that mainly happens in a corporate environment, whereas for hobby projects it tends to lead to frustration.
- pmontra 9y ago
  I agree this is a big job. Overhauling an existing application means a ton of work for both the designer and the developer. However the primary goal of designers should be making users work effectively. Building something that also looks good is a secondary goal. Great designers achieve both goals. If skills or budget are not great, go for the primary. In the case of Audacity, I remember that I have to google how to silence a selection every time I get back to it after a break of several months. I guess this means that the primary goal is somewhat missed.
- usernam 9y ago
  There is plenty of work that can be done incrementally though. Contributing as a designer into an OSS project is no different in commitment than another programmer/translator/contributor would. There's always a cost to contributing. The cost gets bigger as the project gets bigger. This is totally unsurprising. This is why people contribute more to software they use. You don't generally jump ships and help random projects for the sake of it.
pastelsky 9y ago
Just as some programmers can be good at marketing products, I see no reason why developers can't be decent UI designers. You don't need experienced UI designers to fix these low hanging issues, yet.

by gsich 9y ago

themodelplumber 9y ago

I did some free UI design for a game I found on the Pygame site a while back. At the time I was gainfully employed as a graphic designer, UI designer, and illustrator. The artwork was gratefully received and I had a fun time working with the software developer. Here's what I think made it go well: - High visibility: The game was featured in the website sidebar. So I thought it'd be neat to contribute. - Easy as HTML: Extract game zip file, edit Python files in a text editor, plug in my own filenames instead of the default ones. Start game, see my graphics. - Developer was very open and friendly. Just an IT guy with a hobby. - I knew about the Pygame website already because I followed FOSS stuff. I don't know how many UI designers are browsing sites like that, but my guess is not many. But imagine if they did: what are the chances their workflow would be as easy as it was for me? In a compiled language, forget it. I remember a few years back when suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do. So it's far from inviting in many ways for a UI person, though I don't mean to suggest they couldn't hack it if they wanted to.

chao- 9y ago
> ...suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do. What about it do they hate? I ask as a non-designer, to whom their perspective may be foreign.
- untog 9y ago
  Github is a code management tool, so it isn’t too surprising that designers aren’t fond of it. Imagine code diffs, but for visual designs instead. Showing you which palette colors have changed, which margins have been tweaked etc. - Github doesn’t do any of that.
  - TylerE 9y ago
    How could it? Do you expect them to run some sort of headless Photoshop VM?
    - untog 9y ago
      I don’t know, that wasn’t the question. In any case, is it that insane to imagine a visual diff tool? Illustrator files are basically just SVG, it’s all very parseable.
      - adrianN 9y ago
        Write one and become rich. There are tons of graphical tools that lack a proper diff. Just lock at all the CASE tools.
    - jcelerier 9y ago
      well, it's able to display 3d files and images, so why not add some viewers for diffs ? https://github.com/makezonefablab/MakersBook01_MusicBox/commit/498ddea73e4c333bae6ee76ecfdf64c8676f62ae https://github.com/makezonefablab/MakersBook01_MusicBox/comm...
      - TylerE 9y ago
        There's a huge difference between displaying a simple, well documented open format and handling proprietary binary formats.
        jcelerier 9y ago
        But there are plenty of libre software which are able to open a very large set of PSDs. Even if not everything was working perfectly, it would still be a good starting point. https://gist.github.com/ocornut/52a4b9c679ed670851e7 https://gist.github.com/ocornut/52a4b9c679ed670851e7
      - jononor 9y ago
        Github diffs PNG and SVG images I believe. In general one should not use PSD in an open source project, because it requires costly proprietary software. Also does not run on Linux
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  They would show up wanting to find a download, and GutHub's UI was not set up like a typical private software website with a big "Download" button or menu item. It was off to the side, and I believe it said "Clone or Download", and these people are thinking, "is this some insider speak--am I at the right site?" And if you were just downloading, pretty soon you got told that you were ripping yourself off because downloading was so '80s, just clone the repo... Anyway you get the idea. All of a sudden tons of helpful UI resources were intermeshed with this GitHub ecosphere instead of living elsewhere, like on a lovingly-designed personal website with a pleasant UI that had not been mingled with versioning software.

_phaq 9y ago

Well, most design people also have side projects, be it a Tumblr page or an endless supply of drawings that they just do to improve their drawing skills. But that's different from helping an (OSS) application look good. For that, you have to make tons of mockups, iterate again and again, until you have something that looks good and consistent across the entire application. Ideally, you'd also want at least one other person to bounce ideas back and forth, and have an opinion about what you're doing. This is real work, which requires a lot of commitment upfront. The equivalent of requiring a programmer to lay out the entire architecture before they write a single line of code. That's also something that mainly happens in a corporate environment, whereas for hobby projects it tends to lead to frustration.

pmontra 9y ago
I agree this is a big job. Overhauling an existing application means a ton of work for both the designer and the developer. However the primary goal of designers should be making users work effectively. Building something that also looks good is a secondary goal. Great designers achieve both goals. If skills or budget are not great, go for the primary. In the case of Audacity, I remember that I have to google how to silence a selection every time I get back to it after a break of several months. I guess this means that the primary goal is somewhat missed.
usernam 9y ago
There is plenty of work that can be done incrementally though. Contributing as a designer into an OSS project is no different in commitment than another programmer/translator/contributor would. There's always a cost to contributing. The cost gets bigger as the project gets bigger. This is totally unsurprising. This is why people contribute more to software they use. You don't generally jump ships and help random projects for the sake of it.

pastelsky 9y ago

Just as some programmers can be good at marketing products, I see no reason why developers can't be decent UI designers. You don't need experienced UI designers to fix these low hanging issues, yet.