4 ms·

You're casually insulting everyone who is working hard on the software. Consider that the team sizes are surprisingly small. Consider that throwing more people

You're casually insulting everyone who is working hard on the software. Consider that the team sizes are surprisingly small. Consider that throwing more people at a project does not scale, and famously just slows things down after a certain, fairly small threshold. Consider that software is still really really freaking hard to do. Unlimited money does not solve all problems, contrary to what you may think. You can't easily buy your way out of technical debt, time limits, or legacy architectural decisions. Ascribing the bugs to malice or carelessness rather than the fact that this shit is difficult is very unkind. Source: know many people who have spent last few months feverishly working nights and weekends.

michaelmrose 9y ago
I think we can have an honest conversation even if it hurts peoples feelings.
- aeontech 9y ago
  My feelings are fine, but thanks anyway :)
- gabrielcsapo 9y ago
  I think it would be easier to have a conversation that cares about human emotions and get results, than to insult others and lose perspective of those involved. The recent flak over Node COC is a extremely good example about how "having an honest conversation even if it hurts people," is extremely destructive. [1] [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/nodejs_forks_ayo_code_of_conduct/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/nodejs_forks_ayo_co...
  - cortesoft 9y ago
    I am really confused as to where anyone in this thread is insulting people.
cortesoft 9y ago
Wait, what? How was I insulting the people working on the software? I am saying they aren't getting the resources they need to do everything they want to do. I am a developer on a team, too, and I know that sometimes you can't do everything you want because you simply don't have enough time, money, and developers to get it done. I know it is hard, that is why I was saying it is a company resource issue, not a 'bad developers' issue. Even the best developer in the world can't complete a huge project by themselves in a short amount of time. You need company support, which means ample developers, QA, support, and time. Not sure where you ever got 'malice' or 'carelessness' from.
- aeontech 9y ago
  I am sorry if I misconstrued your comment. I thought that you said that bugs and issues are caused by the people working there caring more about return on investment than quality, and not caring about fixing issues, which implies carelessness. By extension, people developing slap-dash product to rip off users without care for how things impact them implies malice. It felt insulting because people I know personally do deeply care, and do spend a lot of effort for things that do not necessarily have a lot of return on investment (just for one example, iOS accessibility features for visually and hearing impaired are designed deep into the system and still have no equal). Aside from that, fixing bugs and improving stability does offer return on investment by building customer loyalty (case in point, after each major release I still see people mentioning Snow Leopard, an OS release dedicated exclusively to stability and performance improvements). I’m not saying that things couldn’t be better, they always could, but I don’t think that all problems are as easily solved as you think. To take a classic counter example, Microsoft employs at conservative estimate twice the number of engineers compared to Apple, but still has not yet made a product twice as good or with half the bugs, imho. At a certain point, the system complexity just gets too great, and we need better architectures, tools and processes to get beyond that level. Again, I am not saying you were intending to insult anyone, and apologies if I misunderstood something in your post. It’s just how it came across to me.

michaelmrose 9y ago

I think we can have an honest conversation even if it hurts peoples feelings.

aeontech 9y ago
My feelings are fine, but thanks anyway :)
gabrielcsapo 9y ago
I think it would be easier to have a conversation that cares about human emotions and get results, than to insult others and lose perspective of those involved. The recent flak over Node COC is a extremely good example about how "having an honest conversation even if it hurts people," is extremely destructive. [1] [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/nodejs_forks_ayo_code_of_conduct/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/nodejs_forks_ayo_co...
- cortesoft 9y ago
  I am really confused as to where anyone in this thread is insulting people.

cortesoft 9y ago

Wait, what? How was I insulting the people working on the software? I am saying they aren't getting the resources they need to do everything they want to do. I am a developer on a team, too, and I know that sometimes you can't do everything you want because you simply don't have enough time, money, and developers to get it done. I know it is hard, that is why I was saying it is a company resource issue, not a 'bad developers' issue. Even the best developer in the world can't complete a huge project by themselves in a short amount of time. You need company support, which means ample developers, QA, support, and time. Not sure where you ever got 'malice' or 'carelessness' from.

aeontech 9y ago
I am sorry if I misconstrued your comment. I thought that you said that bugs and issues are caused by the people working there caring more about return on investment than quality, and not caring about fixing issues, which implies carelessness. By extension, people developing slap-dash product to rip off users without care for how things impact them implies malice. It felt insulting because people I know personally do deeply care, and do spend a lot of effort for things that do not necessarily have a lot of return on investment (just for one example, iOS accessibility features for visually and hearing impaired are designed deep into the system and still have no equal). Aside from that, fixing bugs and improving stability does offer return on investment by building customer loyalty (case in point, after each major release I still see people mentioning Snow Leopard, an OS release dedicated exclusively to stability and performance improvements). I’m not saying that things couldn’t be better, they always could, but I don’t think that all problems are as easily solved as you think. To take a classic counter example, Microsoft employs at conservative estimate twice the number of engineers compared to Apple, but still has not yet made a product twice as good or with half the bugs, imho. At a certain point, the system complexity just gets too great, and we need better architectures, tools and processes to get beyond that level. Again, I am not saying you were intending to insult anyone, and apologies if I misunderstood something in your post. It’s just how it came across to me.