6 ms·

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. The main point here is you can take anywhere you had a resistive heating element and replace it with a mining chip, and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway. Yes heat pumps are more efficient but there are plenty of places in your house you have plain old heat elements that aren't going away (water heater).

Retric 9y ago
CPU's can't tolerate high temperatures so it only works for a small subset of things you need a heating element for. Aka, you can uses them to cook with. Also, while you can use electricity to heat water it's vastly more efficient to burn natural gas to make heat than burn natural gas to make electricity to make it, ditto solar power etc.
adrianmonk 9y ago
Actually, heat pump water heaters are a thing. They are also called "hybrid" water heaters. They cost more money, but Consumer Reports says "payback time is short" (see https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/water-heaters/buying-guide https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/water-heaters/buying-gui... ). They probably don't make as much sense in cold climates, but where I live, air conditioning in the summer (and spring and fall) dwarfs the energy usage from heating in the winter. So a device that makes it colder on average indoors would be a net win even if it didn't have the function of heating your water.
- yourapostasy 9y ago
  When I looked into these units, the potential repair costs over time led me to choose a highly insulated electric (Rheem Marathon series). The major parts like the compressor were not available through Grainger or even an HVAC supply store, nor could I get my hands on a retail parts price list. So I had concerns over vendor lock-in, and the initial capital premium would get vastly inflated in opex costs over time. Has anyone had 7+ years experience with these, and if so, can you please share your ownership experience and the model & brand you used?
dqpb 9y ago
and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway. Is it useful? My (limited) understanding is that most of the work is just arbitrarily difficult number guessing for the sole purpose of being throttled...
- maxerickson 9y ago
  It's useful if you like money and the setup using the mining rig has a lower net cost than other heating.
- kobeya 9y ago
  It's useful because it's useless. Different definitions of "useful" at play there. Proof of work is by design unable to do anything other than provide a probabilistic proof of energy expenditure, but such proofs are themselves useful.
wlesieutre 9y ago
>Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. Only obvious if you know what a heat pump is! Plenty of people will hear "Electrical heating is 100% efficient" and interpret that to mean it's the ideal solution, when in a lot of cases it's just about the worst. But yes, if you have electrical heating, you could throw in some CPUs or ASICs instead and they'll work just as well. The return on investment for cryptocurrency may drop off a cliff when the next silicon process comes out and mines more for the same energy, it's hard to see people wanting to keep upgrading their baseboard heaters on the same cycle that computers get replaced. Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating will depend on A) price of your electronics relative to a cheap electric heater, B) how it stacks up vs future electronics if the payoff doesn't happen while it's new, and C) how insane the cryptocurrency markets get.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating Strictly speaking, isn't it just a special case of resistive heating?
  - khedoros1 9y ago
    It's resistive heating that does something that most resistive heating doesn't do: generate some level of additional income in the form of cryptocurrency.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Only if you need full power heat 24/7 365. If you ever want to turn it off then it's costing you deprecation on very expensive hardware, vs a simple heating element. Remember, few things need constant heat output 24/7 365, otherwise your going to want to generate some or all of your heat from other sources.
      - mark-r 9y ago
        That's the brilliant part - doing it in Siberia where the heat is almost always welcome. Iceland might be good too.

Retric 9y ago

CPU's can't tolerate high temperatures so it only works for a small subset of things you need a heating element for. Aka, you can uses them to cook with. Also, while you can use electricity to heat water it's vastly more efficient to burn natural gas to make heat than burn natural gas to make electricity to make it, ditto solar power etc.

adrianmonk 9y ago

Actually, heat pump water heaters are a thing. They are also called "hybrid" water heaters. They cost more money, but Consumer Reports says "payback time is short" (see https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/water-heaters/buying-guide https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/water-heaters/buying-gui... ). They probably don't make as much sense in cold climates, but where I live, air conditioning in the summer (and spring and fall) dwarfs the energy usage from heating in the winter. So a device that makes it colder on average indoors would be a net win even if it didn't have the function of heating your water.

yourapostasy 9y ago
When I looked into these units, the potential repair costs over time led me to choose a highly insulated electric (Rheem Marathon series). The major parts like the compressor were not available through Grainger or even an HVAC supply store, nor could I get my hands on a retail parts price list. So I had concerns over vendor lock-in, and the initial capital premium would get vastly inflated in opex costs over time. Has anyone had 7+ years experience with these, and if so, can you please share your ownership experience and the model & brand you used?

dqpb 9y ago

and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway. Is it useful? My (limited) understanding is that most of the work is just arbitrarily difficult number guessing for the sole purpose of being throttled...

maxerickson 9y ago
It's useful if you like money and the setup using the mining rig has a lower net cost than other heating.
kobeya 9y ago
It's useful because it's useless. Different definitions of "useful" at play there. Proof of work is by design unable to do anything other than provide a probabilistic proof of energy expenditure, but such proofs are themselves useful.

wlesieutre 9y ago

>Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. Only obvious if you know what a heat pump is! Plenty of people will hear "Electrical heating is 100% efficient" and interpret that to mean it's the ideal solution, when in a lot of cases it's just about the worst. But yes, if you have electrical heating, you could throw in some CPUs or ASICs instead and they'll work just as well. The return on investment for cryptocurrency may drop off a cliff when the next silicon process comes out and mines more for the same energy, it's hard to see people wanting to keep upgrading their baseboard heaters on the same cycle that computers get replaced. Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating will depend on A) price of your electronics relative to a cheap electric heater, B) how it stacks up vs future electronics if the payoff doesn't happen while it's new, and C) how insane the cryptocurrency markets get.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating Strictly speaking, isn't it just a special case of resistive heating?
- khedoros1 9y ago
  It's resistive heating that does something that most resistive heating doesn't do: generate some level of additional income in the form of cryptocurrency.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Only if you need full power heat 24/7 365. If you ever want to turn it off then it's costing you deprecation on very expensive hardware, vs a simple heating element. Remember, few things need constant heat output 24/7 365, otherwise your going to want to generate some or all of your heat from other sources.
    - mark-r 9y ago
      That's the brilliant part - doing it in Siberia where the heat is almost always welcome. Iceland might be good too.