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> Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services. If they can afford it. Capitalism i

> Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services. If they can afford it. Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit. > The extent of human flourishing is the extent to which human societies adopt capitalism. I guess that explains why two of the world superpowers in recent times are/were communist (USSR, China) > Even when it is adopted in small degrees, the result is a dramatic uplifting of billions of people out of poverty. That must explain why China is lifting more people out of poverty than any other country. > Capitalism is good and we would all be better off if we had more of it. It's better than fuedalism, but I'd rather live in a society focused on helping each other, than in one focused on exploiting others as much as I can to maximize my capital. > Collectivism is the ideology that’s holds that your moral sanction for living comes from the group; only the leaders of that group, whether through a connection to god or the tribe, have access to the true nature of the world, and so are justified in any brutality they see fit. If that's what you think it is, then yeah. That's pretty shitty. But don't you think it's better when people work together and help each other, rather than thinking only of themselves? You sound like someone who drank way to much of the Ayn Rand Cool Aid.

julianmarq 9y ago
> If they can afford it. Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit. And yet, freelancers or one-employee businesses are also engaging in capitalism. Are those the ones being stolen from or the ones stealing? Socialist ideas are so confusing that I can no longer tell. > I guess that explains why two of the world superpowers in recent times are/were communist (USSR, China) And half of them dropped it while the other is not precisely the best place to live in the world, even if it might be the only communist experiment that isn't a complete nightmare. > That must explain why China is lifting more people out of poverty than any other country. Wasn't China the place were only five years ago there were thousands starving in sweatshops? And that's assuming that isn't happening anymore, I haven't kept up to date on that. > It's better than fuedalism, but I'd rather live in a society focused on helping each other, than in one focused on exploiting others as much as I can to maximize my capital. It's not like you can't live in such a place today, where are you writing this from? I'm assuming China, given that it's the only example of communism you're using. > But don't you think it's better when people work together and help each other, rather than thinking only of themselves? Capitalism prevents this how? For that matter, this you're describing here isn't what socialism or communism are about, as history shows. > You sound like someone who drank way to much of the Ayn Rand Cool Aid. And you sound like someone who'd greatly regret his/her life choices once you see yourself in a gulag (or a gulag by any other name). Wait, did you think you'd be spared?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > > Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit. > And yet, freelancers or one-employee businesses are also engaging in capitalism. Those are essentially two different words that happen to be spelled and pronounced the same. The first is a politico-economic system, the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in. That they are both called “capitalism” doesn't actually make them the same thing.
  - julianmarq 9y ago
    > the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in. Given that it can't occur under socialism or communism, I don't think it is independent of the socio-economic system. But, that aside, you have a point. However, that aside, I see no reason to believe the other person wasn't talking about both.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Given that it can't occur under socialism or communism While the domain may be limited, it has been permitted in some degree in most real-world implementations of socialism or communism (and it was also widely practiced in pre-capitalist systems, like feudalism.) There's a relationship between the two terms (capitalism-the-economic-system was named “capitalism” by it's critics because it organizes the structure of society around the interests of those who have been most successful in in capitalism in the sense of private endeavors to acquire capital, after all.)
  - Crespyl 9y ago
    > the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in On the contrary, entrepreneurship is very much dependent on the context it occurs in. In a socialist/communist context, my small sewing machine for customized garments is a "means of production" that is subject to seizure by the "The People". In a capitalist context, I am actively encouraged (subject to market conditions) to expand and build up my own small factory/business to meet demand.

julianmarq 9y ago

> If they can afford it. Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit. And yet, freelancers or one-employee businesses are also engaging in capitalism. Are those the ones being stolen from or the ones stealing? Socialist ideas are so confusing that I can no longer tell. > I guess that explains why two of the world superpowers in recent times are/were communist (USSR, China) And half of them dropped it while the other is not precisely the best place to live in the world, even if it might be the only communist experiment that isn't a complete nightmare. > That must explain why China is lifting more people out of poverty than any other country. Wasn't China the place were only five years ago there were thousands starving in sweatshops? And that's assuming that isn't happening anymore, I haven't kept up to date on that. > It's better than fuedalism, but I'd rather live in a society focused on helping each other, than in one focused on exploiting others as much as I can to maximize my capital. It's not like you can't live in such a place today, where are you writing this from? I'm assuming China, given that it's the only example of communism you're using. > But don't you think it's better when people work together and help each other, rather than thinking only of themselves? Capitalism prevents this how? For that matter, this you're describing here isn't what socialism or communism are about, as history shows. > You sound like someone who drank way to much of the Ayn Rand Cool Aid. And you sound like someone who'd greatly regret his/her life choices once you see yourself in a gulag (or a gulag by any other name). Wait, did you think you'd be spared?

dragonwriter 9y ago
> > Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit. > And yet, freelancers or one-employee businesses are also engaging in capitalism. Those are essentially two different words that happen to be spelled and pronounced the same. The first is a politico-economic system, the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in. That they are both called “capitalism” doesn't actually make them the same thing.
- julianmarq 9y ago
  > the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in. Given that it can't occur under socialism or communism, I don't think it is independent of the socio-economic system. But, that aside, you have a point. However, that aside, I see no reason to believe the other person wasn't talking about both.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Given that it can't occur under socialism or communism While the domain may be limited, it has been permitted in some degree in most real-world implementations of socialism or communism (and it was also widely practiced in pre-capitalist systems, like feudalism.) There's a relationship between the two terms (capitalism-the-economic-system was named “capitalism” by it's critics because it organizes the structure of society around the interests of those who have been most successful in in capitalism in the sense of private endeavors to acquire capital, after all.)
- Crespyl 9y ago
  > the second is the act of of entrepreneurship independent of what politico-economic context it occurs in On the contrary, entrepreneurship is very much dependent on the context it occurs in. In a socialist/communist context, my small sewing machine for customized garments is a "means of production" that is subject to seizure by the "The People". In a capitalist context, I am actively encouraged (subject to market conditions) to expand and build up my own small factory/business to meet demand.