4 ms·

I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. But whether they are the same or not how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is resp

by zaro 9y ago

I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. But whether they are the same or not how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible? It sounds plain ridiculous.

gaius 9y ago
Here's 55m to get you started https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward You can research the rest yourself... won't take long
- zaro 9y ago
  Or maybe 18 million to get me started according to the the same article. Which one? Let's take something in between. 37 million. Now I have to find 63 million instead of 45. But that's only part of the problem. The other part is how exactly do you know all of these deaths are result of communism directly. Because you see, no matter communism or capitalism people are generally violent creatures. They like killing other people so maybe if the capitalism prevailed after the WW2 maybe there would have been 46 million deaths. There is correlation between communism and increased number of deaths in a state. There is also correlation between capitalism and increased number of deaths in foreign states (especially if population is brown). But as we all know correlation is not causality.
  - gaius 9y ago
    The other part is how exactly do you know all of these deaths are result of communism directly Because they were directly attributed to the Great Leap Forward. Same as the millions killed by the Khmer Rouge in Year Zero.
abtinf 9y ago
65 million in China. Another 30 million in the Soviet Union. A number of other areas with a couple million each.
- zaro 9y ago
  Oh :) now it's 65 million. I thought it's 55 :) I really thought the more like 25 million on Soviet Union side were during the WW2. While you can attribute some of the to communism most of them you should be the Germans fault.
merdreubu 9y ago
>I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. They are both abject totalitarian ideologies that produced obscene levels of human suffering. >how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible Just add the deaths caused by communist policies (mass-executions, purges, labor camps, collectivization, famine etc).
- zaro 9y ago
  As a person living in a former communist country I find it quite amusing that after the communism was replaced by capitalism population increase went from a steady increase to steady decrease. But you know while we talk about how many people has communism killed, we never talk how much child labour and slavery has capitalism produced.. Anyway you get the point. And by the way it's not that I care about communism. I don't. Never liked it although during these years I was a kid so I didn't have adult Experience. But I don't like capitalism any better.
  - merdreubu 9y ago
    > As a person living in a former communist country I find it quite amusing that after the communism was replaced by capitalism population increase went from a steady increase to steady decrease. I live in a former communist country too, one that suffered under a North Korean inspired regime in the last decades before communism collapsed in a bloody revolution. And population was increasing at the fastest rate in Europe at the time, despite the miserable living conditions only because abortion and contraception were forbidden because the communist leadership wanted to increase the number of state slaves as fast as possible. Hundreds of thousands of children were abandoned by parents unable to care for them due to lack of food, lack of money and lack of space in the cramped apartment blocks. Countless children ended up in secretive state run orphanages that looked more like concentration camps. Here's a clip of one of those happy places https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOS3jBy3bl4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOS3jBy3bl4 Anyway, yay population increase! > But you know while we talk about how many people has communism killed, we never talk how much child labour and slavery has capitalism produced.. Anyway you get the point. How did capitalism produce child labor and slavery? You must be pretty historically illiterate to not know that it was capitalism that made child and slave labor obsolete through technology advancements and automation. The very concept of childhood as we understand it today is the product of capitalist societies during the industrial revolution. And it was the capitalist societies that birthed the abolitionist movement and also exported it all over the world through various means more or less peaceful. Blaming capitalism for those things is like blaming the cure for the illness it removes. > And by the way it's not that I care about communism. I don't. Never liked it although during these years I was a kid so I didn't have adult Experience. But I don't like capitalism any better. Of course you don't like "capitalism", who the hell would like "capitalism" if it would mean what you think it means (that whole slavery and child labor bullshit).

by zaro 9y ago

I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. But whether they are the same or not how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible? It sounds plain ridiculous.

gaius 9y ago

Here's 55m to get you started https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward You can research the rest yourself... won't take long

zaro 9y ago
Or maybe 18 million to get me started according to the the same article. Which one? Let's take something in between. 37 million. Now I have to find 63 million instead of 45. But that's only part of the problem. The other part is how exactly do you know all of these deaths are result of communism directly. Because you see, no matter communism or capitalism people are generally violent creatures. They like killing other people so maybe if the capitalism prevailed after the WW2 maybe there would have been 46 million deaths. There is correlation between communism and increased number of deaths in a state. There is also correlation between capitalism and increased number of deaths in foreign states (especially if population is brown). But as we all know correlation is not causality.
- gaius 9y ago
  The other part is how exactly do you know all of these deaths are result of communism directly Because they were directly attributed to the Great Leap Forward. Same as the millions killed by the Khmer Rouge in Year Zero.

abtinf 9y ago

65 million in China. Another 30 million in the Soviet Union. A number of other areas with a couple million each.

zaro 9y ago
Oh :) now it's 65 million. I thought it's 55 :) I really thought the more like 25 million on Soviet Union side were during the WW2. While you can attribute some of the to communism most of them you should be the Germans fault.

merdreubu 9y ago

>I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. They are both abject totalitarian ideologies that produced obscene levels of human suffering. >how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible Just add the deaths caused by communist policies (mass-executions, purges, labor camps, collectivization, famine etc).

zaro 9y ago
As a person living in a former communist country I find it quite amusing that after the communism was replaced by capitalism population increase went from a steady increase to steady decrease. But you know while we talk about how many people has communism killed, we never talk how much child labour and slavery has capitalism produced.. Anyway you get the point. And by the way it's not that I care about communism. I don't. Never liked it although during these years I was a kid so I didn't have adult Experience. But I don't like capitalism any better.
- merdreubu 9y ago
  > As a person living in a former communist country I find it quite amusing that after the communism was replaced by capitalism population increase went from a steady increase to steady decrease. I live in a former communist country too, one that suffered under a North Korean inspired regime in the last decades before communism collapsed in a bloody revolution. And population was increasing at the fastest rate in Europe at the time, despite the miserable living conditions only because abortion and contraception were forbidden because the communist leadership wanted to increase the number of state slaves as fast as possible. Hundreds of thousands of children were abandoned by parents unable to care for them due to lack of food, lack of money and lack of space in the cramped apartment blocks. Countless children ended up in secretive state run orphanages that looked more like concentration camps. Here's a clip of one of those happy places https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOS3jBy3bl4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOS3jBy3bl4 Anyway, yay population increase! > But you know while we talk about how many people has communism killed, we never talk how much child labour and slavery has capitalism produced.. Anyway you get the point. How did capitalism produce child labor and slavery? You must be pretty historically illiterate to not know that it was capitalism that made child and slave labor obsolete through technology advancements and automation. The very concept of childhood as we understand it today is the product of capitalist societies during the industrial revolution. And it was the capitalist societies that birthed the abolitionist movement and also exported it all over the world through various means more or less peaceful. Blaming capitalism for those things is like blaming the cure for the illness it removes. > And by the way it's not that I care about communism. I don't. Never liked it although during these years I was a kid so I didn't have adult Experience. But I don't like capitalism any better. Of course you don't like "capitalism", who the hell would like "capitalism" if it would mean what you think it means (that whole slavery and child labor bullshit).