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Or maybe we could just play loud patriotic music over loudspeakers every morning, and use armed guards to force people to fall out for PT. "cars could be banne

Or maybe we could just play loud patriotic music over loudspeakers every morning, and use armed guards to force people to fall out for PT. "cars could be banned from city centers to make room for bicycle lanes and lush pedestrian zones, parking lots could be required to be at least half a mile from offices and shopping malls," Screw old people and the handicapped, eh? Here's a better idea: live your life the way you want. Don't force others to live the way you want. Because, you know, granting government that level of power that doesn't end up where you imagine that it ends up.

typotropic 9y ago
So you are saying that if we grant our governments the awesome power of city planning (which the government already has, do you think cities are just a random collection of buildings brought up by the first person who could buy a spot of land?) what slippery slope would we go down? Yes cars are harmful, to everyone, and they don't make a city more accessible (old people also can't drive when they start losing their sight for instance). Public transport makes cities accessible. You can live your life however you want, until you start hurting everyone else's.
Someone 9y ago
Old people and the handicapped would IMO be fine. Car free streets make street crossings a lot less scary and allow for streets that are less wide. Those that still need it could safely use strollers and wheelchairs. There also would likely be fewer handicapped. Allowing healthy people to drive huge four-wheel drive “wheelchairs” from the time they are 18 doesn’t make the population healthier. I also doubt people currently live the way they want. If you ask a 40 year old with diabetes and a BMI of >30 whether they do, do they say so? “Government of the people, by the people, FOR the people, shall not perish from the Earth.”. Governments should shape society to make people happier. Just as with other tasks (product design, educating kids) that doesn’t mean giving them what they say they want. Judging by things such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index, some governments are better at providing what their people want then others. Call me an optimist, but I think the top ones have been granted “that level of power”.
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  I think you make a great point. Too often the size of government is confused with its role. For example, there is a difference between enabling (positive behaviors X, Y or Z) and enslavement (e.g., addiction, obesity, etc.)

typotropic 9y ago

So you are saying that if we grant our governments the awesome power of city planning (which the government already has, do you think cities are just a random collection of buildings brought up by the first person who could buy a spot of land?) what slippery slope would we go down? Yes cars are harmful, to everyone, and they don't make a city more accessible (old people also can't drive when they start losing their sight for instance). Public transport makes cities accessible. You can live your life however you want, until you start hurting everyone else's.

Someone 9y ago

Old people and the handicapped would IMO be fine. Car free streets make street crossings a lot less scary and allow for streets that are less wide. Those that still need it could safely use strollers and wheelchairs. There also would likely be fewer handicapped. Allowing healthy people to drive huge four-wheel drive “wheelchairs” from the time they are 18 doesn’t make the population healthier. I also doubt people currently live the way they want. If you ask a 40 year old with diabetes and a BMI of >30 whether they do, do they say so? “Government of the people, by the people, FOR the people, shall not perish from the Earth.”. Governments should shape society to make people happier. Just as with other tasks (product design, educating kids) that doesn’t mean giving them what they say they want. Judging by things such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index, some governments are better at providing what their people want then others. Call me an optimist, but I think the top ones have been granted “that level of power”.

chiefalchemist 9y ago
I think you make a great point. Too often the size of government is confused with its role. For example, there is a difference between enabling (positive behaviors X, Y or Z) and enslavement (e.g., addiction, obesity, etc.)