5 ms·

Inherent conflict here - programmers don't click on ads, fullstop. I can't imagine a group I'd want to advertise to less.

tudelo 9y ago
Not true, I've clicked a few on accident.
- brian-armstrong 9y ago
  Ah, fair point. Maybe I should have said "don't click on ads intentionally"
taway_1212 9y ago
They do click on job ads.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Not the ones we don't see.
lukepothier 9y ago
StackOverflow ads are not the same as typical ads that technical users tend to block - they are typically just simple text links to job offers. Additionally, SO has fantastic analytics on logged in users which would drive the cost per impression up - if you've ever filled out their developer survey, you've given them everything they need to sell employers very expensive targeted ads directed at you.
- brian-armstrong 9y ago
  I had to turn my ad blocker off to even see the ad you're referring to. Do you know of programmers who don't run ad blockers?
  - lukepothier 9y ago
    Of course. I know even more who whitelist sites with ads that aren't overbearing.
    - always_good 9y ago
      I have a hard time believing anybody actually goes "lemme turn off ads on this site to see how they are." It's just something people say they do online to feel good.
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    Of course. Are you saying all programmers run ad blockers? Just visit any [usually divisive] ad blocking Hacker News post and you'll see people who aren't blocking ads. Chances of none of them being developers is slim. Also I don't block ads. So that's one.
Xylakant 9y ago
The thing about ads is that you don’t need to click on them to work. You can’t click on billboards or newspaper ads either. Keep the product in mind is already most of what you want to achieve.
- brian-armstrong 9y ago
  From a monetary aspect, impressions are basically worthless. You need clicks to make any money.
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    I haven’t advertised on SO, but the copy text on their advertising page doesn’t sound like they’re selling slots on a CTR basis. They seem to be well aware that clicks will be rare and are upfront about that. https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/advertise https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/advertise
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    That's true for generic keyword/retargeting ads, not premium placements.
stdclass 9y ago
Do you have any numbers or references on that claim?
- trowawee 9y ago
  So, I don't have a formal study saying that techies are the most likely to ad-block/least likely to click ads. What we know: - Ad-blocker users skew young and wealthy.[1] The developer community as a whole also skews young and wealthy. - If you are aware of the existence of ad-blocking technology, you probably use it.[2] - Via comparison with other sites, you can also make some extrapolations. Take IGN - not a perfect proxy, but a reasonable one, with a core audience that is probably fairly demographically similar to the core audience for most developer-oriented sites. Approximately 40% of their traffic was using ad-blockers in 2015.[3] A Wired statement posted in 2016 has 20% of their traffic using ad-blockers.[4] - Anecdotal evidence: every dev I've worked with has at least one ad-blocker installed. The vast majority of dev-adjacent people I've worked with - PMs, technical writers, designers - have ad-blockers installed. Put it together and I think it makes a fairly compelling case that techies are the last audience on earth you'd want to orient your online marketing towards. I used to hope that something like The Deck[5], which was explicitly targeted towards "web, design & creative professionals", would be a good solution to this, and I even permitted their ads on Metafilter, but they shut down last year, presumably because they just weren't making enough money. They did everything that people claimed they wanted: the ads were unobtrusive, mostly text and optimized images, they didn't engage in tracking, they didn't sell user data (as far as I know), and they still couldn't make it work. 1. https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key-advertiser-demos-snake https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key... people-and-high-earners-143546 2. https://digiday.com/media/survey-80-percent-know-ad-blocking-use/ https://digiday.com/media/survey-80-percent-know-ad-blocking... 3. http://adage.com/article/digital/websites-hit-hardest-ad-blockers/301767/ http://adage.com/article/digital/websites-hit-hardest-ad-blo... 4. https://www.wired.com/how-wired-is-going-to-handle-ad-blocking/ https://www.wired.com/how-wired-is-going-to-handle-ad-blocki... 5. http://decknetwork.net/ http://decknetwork.net/
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    Nice post with citations. Your first link messes up though. Seems to be the correct link, but got cut off somehow. In case you don't or can't correct it anymore, it's: https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key-advertiser-demos-millennials-and-high-earners-143546 https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key...
bluGill 9y ago
Clicks are not the only use of ads, and not always the point. They are easy to measure and so everybody tracks them, but it isn't the point. The point is to get people to buy. Now it is understood that when I click on an ad for a widget and buy the widget it is easy to tell. However if I see an ad for a widget, and next week buy that widget the ad probably worked even though it is muck harder find a cause/effect relationship. Thus we need to keep reminding people that clicks are rarely the point of ads. The point is the sale. Radio, TV, newspapers, magazines, park benches, bill boards (and many more) all have advertisements. The people who place those ads believe they drive sales long term - and they have statistical data to back that up. All of that data came without a single click.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
baud147258 9y ago
To be fair, all the ads on SO are vetted (I think they did a blog post about it) to be relevant to the target audience, so it's always about tech.

tudelo 9y ago

Not true, I've clicked a few on accident.

brian-armstrong 9y ago
Ah, fair point. Maybe I should have said "don't click on ads intentionally"

taway_1212 9y ago

They do click on job ads.

dredmorbius 9y ago
Not the ones we don't see.

lukepothier 9y ago

StackOverflow ads are not the same as typical ads that technical users tend to block - they are typically just simple text links to job offers. Additionally, SO has fantastic analytics on logged in users which would drive the cost per impression up - if you've ever filled out their developer survey, you've given them everything they need to sell employers very expensive targeted ads directed at you.

brian-armstrong 9y ago
I had to turn my ad blocker off to even see the ad you're referring to. Do you know of programmers who don't run ad blockers?
- lukepothier 9y ago
  Of course. I know even more who whitelist sites with ads that aren't overbearing.
  - always_good 9y ago
    I have a hard time believing anybody actually goes "lemme turn off ads on this site to see how they are." It's just something people say they do online to feel good.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  Of course. Are you saying all programmers run ad blockers? Just visit any [usually divisive] ad blocking Hacker News post and you'll see people who aren't blocking ads. Chances of none of them being developers is slim. Also I don't block ads. So that's one.

Xylakant 9y ago

The thing about ads is that you don’t need to click on them to work. You can’t click on billboards or newspaper ads either. Keep the product in mind is already most of what you want to achieve.

brian-armstrong 9y ago
From a monetary aspect, impressions are basically worthless. You need clicks to make any money.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  I haven’t advertised on SO, but the copy text on their advertising page doesn’t sound like they’re selling slots on a CTR basis. They seem to be well aware that clicks will be rare and are upfront about that. https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/advertise https://www.stackoverflowbusiness.com/advertise
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  That's true for generic keyword/retargeting ads, not premium placements.

stdclass 9y ago

Do you have any numbers or references on that claim?

trowawee 9y ago
So, I don't have a formal study saying that techies are the most likely to ad-block/least likely to click ads. What we know: - Ad-blocker users skew young and wealthy.[1] The developer community as a whole also skews young and wealthy. - If you are aware of the existence of ad-blocking technology, you probably use it.[2] - Via comparison with other sites, you can also make some extrapolations. Take IGN - not a perfect proxy, but a reasonable one, with a core audience that is probably fairly demographically similar to the core audience for most developer-oriented sites. Approximately 40% of their traffic was using ad-blockers in 2015.[3] A Wired statement posted in 2016 has 20% of their traffic using ad-blockers.[4] - Anecdotal evidence: every dev I've worked with has at least one ad-blocker installed. The vast majority of dev-adjacent people I've worked with - PMs, technical writers, designers - have ad-blockers installed. Put it together and I think it makes a fairly compelling case that techies are the last audience on earth you'd want to orient your online marketing towards. I used to hope that something like The Deck[5], which was explicitly targeted towards "web, design & creative professionals", would be a good solution to this, and I even permitted their ads on Metafilter, but they shut down last year, presumably because they just weren't making enough money. They did everything that people claimed they wanted: the ads were unobtrusive, mostly text and optimized images, they didn't engage in tracking, they didn't sell user data (as far as I know), and they still couldn't make it work. 1. https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key-advertiser-demos-snake https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key... people-and-high-earners-143546 2. https://digiday.com/media/survey-80-percent-know-ad-blocking-use/ https://digiday.com/media/survey-80-percent-know-ad-blocking... 3. http://adage.com/article/digital/websites-hit-hardest-ad-blockers/301767/ http://adage.com/article/digital/websites-hit-hardest-ad-blo... 4. https://www.wired.com/how-wired-is-going-to-handle-ad-blocking/ https://www.wired.com/how-wired-is-going-to-handle-ad-blocki... 5. http://decknetwork.net/ http://decknetwork.net/
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  Nice post with citations. Your first link messes up though. Seems to be the correct link, but got cut off somehow. In case you don't or can't correct it anymore, it's: https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key-advertiser-demos-millennials-and-high-earners-143546 https://marketingland.com/ad-blocker-usage-highest-among-key...

bluGill 9y ago

Clicks are not the only use of ads, and not always the point. They are easy to measure and so everybody tracks them, but it isn't the point. The point is to get people to buy. Now it is understood that when I click on an ad for a widget and buy the widget it is easy to tell. However if I see an ad for a widget, and next week buy that widget the ad probably worked even though it is muck harder find a cause/effect relationship. Thus we need to keep reminding people that clicks are rarely the point of ads. The point is the sale. Radio, TV, newspapers, magazines, park benches, bill boards (and many more) all have advertisements. The people who place those ads believe they drive sales long term - and they have statistical data to back that up. All of that data came without a single click.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

baud147258 9y ago

To be fair, all the ads on SO are vetted (I think they did a blog post about it) to be relevant to the target audience, so it's always about tech.