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I'd be curious to know at this point what amount of bitcoin transactions are actually retail focused. There was a big push a couple years back by users wanting

I'd be curious to know at this point what amount of bitcoin transactions are actually retail focused. There was a big push a couple years back by users wanting to make actual purchases with bitcoin and helping to build the infrastructure around that. Does this retail side of bitcoin still exist, or is everyone just mining and selling -> buying and holding?

synaesthesisx 9y ago
Why would I want to make actual purchases when it's rallying like this? You'd almost always be better off holding instead...
- stefano 9y ago
  So everyone is holding and buying it, and no one is making anything useful with it. Sounds like a great allocation of capital! /s
  - Omnius 9y ago
    I am all for bitcoin but you think about it as it is right now. People turn their cash into ether then extract more cash then they put in later only because a bunch of other people are doing it too. This has to pop and when it does i buying a shit ton of it for the next rally. --edit extra should have been extract.
- dragontamer 9y ago
  That's the problem. If no one is actually using the coin for practical purposes, you've created a glorified Ponzi scheme. The minute that "better off holding" is no longer the most common opinion, the price of BTC will drop. I dunno how long that will take: it took years for Enron to drop to zero for example. But I do not place much trust in the whims of stranger's opinions.
apthnz 9y ago
As far as I know, most Bitcoin transactions take ~10mins to get confirmed, so I'm not sure the current infrastructure would work for retail. Admittedly I don't know what would need to be changed to speed up transaction confirmations to the point where you could use it in retail situations.
- seanalltogether 9y ago
  When I say retail I mean things like buying steam games or buying web hosting, not actual brick and morter store purchases.
  - Plnt 9y ago
    You can buy games on Steam with Bitcoin. https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11525482/bitcoin-steam-valve-bitpay https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11525482/bitcoin-steam-va...
- dragontamer 9y ago
  10-minutes isn't that big of a deal. ACH transactions used to take 3 days for example. The real big deal is that currently, BTC transaction fees are like $5+ right now. So its cheaper to use Paypal than to use BTC at the current prices.
- joshribakoff 9y ago
  Casinos & arcades sort of solve this problem. You walk & buy tokens, then use these tokens to spend, which can then be cashed back out when you're done. Also credit card transactions can be reversed up to months later, so in the grand scheme of things 10 minutes is not so bad, if big retail outlets wanted to make it work they could.
  - bduerst 9y ago
    Except the majority of customers don't want to pre-purchase gift cards to shop at a retailer, but instead want to spend as soon as they make the decision to purchase. Likewise, the frequency of chargebacks is so low it doesn't justify waiting up to 10 minutes to buy something for every purchase.
jcousins 9y ago
The largest Bitcoin payment processor for retail is Bitpay, I've used them on a few websites. They enable shops to accept Bitcoin with a locked in exchange rate, shielding them from the volatility and the need to even hold and manage cryptocurrency. They charge a 1% settlement fee, which I believe is competitive compared to traditional payment processors. Hard to say what proportion of transactions are retail driven, but Bitpay did write about their progress towards a $1B annual payment volume milestone recently[1] which is a drop in the ocean compared to the multi-billion dollar daily trade volumes on exchanges. [1] https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/

synaesthesisx 9y ago

Why would I want to make actual purchases when it's rallying like this? You'd almost always be better off holding instead...

stefano 9y ago
So everyone is holding and buying it, and no one is making anything useful with it. Sounds like a great allocation of capital! /s
- Omnius 9y ago
  I am all for bitcoin but you think about it as it is right now. People turn their cash into ether then extract more cash then they put in later only because a bunch of other people are doing it too. This has to pop and when it does i buying a shit ton of it for the next rally. --edit extra should have been extract.
dragontamer 9y ago
That's the problem. If no one is actually using the coin for practical purposes, you've created a glorified Ponzi scheme. The minute that "better off holding" is no longer the most common opinion, the price of BTC will drop. I dunno how long that will take: it took years for Enron to drop to zero for example. But I do not place much trust in the whims of stranger's opinions.

apthnz 9y ago

As far as I know, most Bitcoin transactions take ~10mins to get confirmed, so I'm not sure the current infrastructure would work for retail. Admittedly I don't know what would need to be changed to speed up transaction confirmations to the point where you could use it in retail situations.

seanalltogether 9y ago
When I say retail I mean things like buying steam games or buying web hosting, not actual brick and morter store purchases.
- Plnt 9y ago
  You can buy games on Steam with Bitcoin. https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11525482/bitcoin-steam-valve-bitpay https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11525482/bitcoin-steam-va...
dragontamer 9y ago
10-minutes isn't that big of a deal. ACH transactions used to take 3 days for example. The real big deal is that currently, BTC transaction fees are like $5+ right now. So its cheaper to use Paypal than to use BTC at the current prices.
joshribakoff 9y ago
Casinos & arcades sort of solve this problem. You walk & buy tokens, then use these tokens to spend, which can then be cashed back out when you're done. Also credit card transactions can be reversed up to months later, so in the grand scheme of things 10 minutes is not so bad, if big retail outlets wanted to make it work they could.
- bduerst 9y ago
  Except the majority of customers don't want to pre-purchase gift cards to shop at a retailer, but instead want to spend as soon as they make the decision to purchase. Likewise, the frequency of chargebacks is so low it doesn't justify waiting up to 10 minutes to buy something for every purchase.

jcousins 9y ago

The largest Bitcoin payment processor for retail is Bitpay, I've used them on a few websites. They enable shops to accept Bitcoin with a locked in exchange rate, shielding them from the volatility and the need to even hold and manage cryptocurrency. They charge a 1% settlement fee, which I believe is competitive compared to traditional payment processors. Hard to say what proportion of transactions are retail driven, but Bitpay did write about their progress towards a $1B annual payment volume milestone recently[1] which is a drop in the ocean compared to the multi-billion dollar daily trade volumes on exchanges. [1] https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/ https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-growth-2017/