3 ms·

I don’t buy any of the attacks listed here or see how the examples being imperceptible is actually a factor. If you have the ability to modify the check why no

I don’t buy any of the attacks listed here or see how the examples being imperceptible is actually a factor. If you have the ability to modify the check why not make it actually look like it’s for a 1000000 dollars (ie even to a human). If you are going to go out and replace speed limit signs to fool self driving cars, it’s probably equally dangerous whether or not the change is obvious, because if it’s way out of bounds a car won’t do it but if it isn’t then it would also fool humans. Anyone have some more realistic attacks that are specifically possible due to the imperceptible nature of the changes in the input? Most of the harm I’ve heard in examples simply comes from the fact that if you are controlling the input to an ml system, out can get it to do whatever you want even without using any of these techniques: just actually change the class of the input.

squeaky-clean 9y ago
> If you have the ability to modify the check why not make it actually look like it’s for a 1000000 dollars (ie even to a human). Plausible deniability? "I don't know why it took $1 million for a $100 check, look the check clearly says $100 on it, I didn't edit it. Must be a bank glitch."
- rtkwe 9y ago
  All the deposit systems I've used recently still require you to enter the deposit amount so if you're entering 1000000 for a check that 'clearly' says 100 you lose all plausible deniability because you're actively lying to the bank at that point.
  - throwaway613834 9y ago
    Huh, I'd always wondered why they ask you to enter the number. Thanks for pointing this out!
    - rtkwe 9y ago
      Yeah it's a combo of that and also just a check on the CV that reads the checks. Mainly it's the latter since it'll be really rare for people to maliciously enter an incorrect amount.
maltalex 9y ago
> If you have the ability to modify the check why not make it actually look like it’s for a 1000000 dollars (ie even to a human). Humans are harder to fool. But some bank apps allow you to deposit a check by photographing it. Such apps would be fairly easy to attack. If you limit yourself to making 100$ checks become 1000$ checks and not 1,000,000$ checks, you might even get away with it.
- c22 9y ago
  A few years back a friend of mine was depositing a $300.00 check at Chase. When the teller asked him how she could help he said "Oh, just depositing this three thousand dollars." She punched in the deposit for $3000.00 and gave him a receipt. It was corrected within 24 hours but the receipt and printout of his bank statement was a great conversation piece. I doubt they would have let him just walk away with the money, nevermind multiple times.
- dontreact 9y ago
  You have to type in a number. So if you are going to type in 1000, it would probably more likely be a successful attack if you actually forged the check so it looked like it said 1000, so again not seeing how an adversarial example is helpful here.

squeaky-clean 9y ago

> If you have the ability to modify the check why not make it actually look like it’s for a 1000000 dollars (ie even to a human). Plausible deniability? "I don't know why it took $1 million for a $100 check, look the check clearly says $100 on it, I didn't edit it. Must be a bank glitch."

rtkwe 9y ago
All the deposit systems I've used recently still require you to enter the deposit amount so if you're entering 1000000 for a check that 'clearly' says 100 you lose all plausible deniability because you're actively lying to the bank at that point.
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  Huh, I'd always wondered why they ask you to enter the number. Thanks for pointing this out!
  - rtkwe 9y ago
    Yeah it's a combo of that and also just a check on the CV that reads the checks. Mainly it's the latter since it'll be really rare for people to maliciously enter an incorrect amount.

maltalex 9y ago

> If you have the ability to modify the check why not make it actually look like it’s for a 1000000 dollars (ie even to a human). Humans are harder to fool. But some bank apps allow you to deposit a check by photographing it. Such apps would be fairly easy to attack. If you limit yourself to making 100$ checks become 1000$ checks and not 1,000,000$ checks, you might even get away with it.

c22 9y ago
A few years back a friend of mine was depositing a $300.00 check at Chase. When the teller asked him how she could help he said "Oh, just depositing this three thousand dollars." She punched in the deposit for $3000.00 and gave him a receipt. It was corrected within 24 hours but the receipt and printout of his bank statement was a great conversation piece. I doubt they would have let him just walk away with the money, nevermind multiple times.
dontreact 9y ago
You have to type in a number. So if you are going to type in 1000, it would probably more likely be a successful attack if you actually forged the check so it looked like it said 1000, so again not seeing how an adversarial example is helpful here.