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Cigarettes and junk food are not hostile in this context. We are talking about things that people don’t like but are forced to get anyway. Cigarettes and junk

Cigarettes and junk food are not hostile in this context. We are talking about things that people don’t like but are forced to get anyway. Cigarettes and junk food are definitely unhealthy, but people love them. So much that it’s hard to take them away from them.

walterstucco 9y ago
> We are talking about things that people don’t like but are forced to get anyway. - Driving: a lot of people drive, very few of them like it or they would learn how to do it properly - Public transport: 99,99% of people using public transport hate it - Going to the dentist - eating vegetables - taking kids to the pool and so on… all of this things are incredibly annoying to many, yet they have not failed
- akoncius 9y ago
  so watching ads is a job?
  - walterstucco 9y ago
    In a way, it is. But I don't understand the connection. The core of the issue is the proverbial "worse is better" All the walled garden on the web are optimising one particular feature - engagement - leaving behind many others that are equally important if not more, like user's freedom or privacy. It's no wonder that investing so much money in getting users to subscribe and use the platform results in an increase of time spent by the users on the platform. It is orthogonal to the problem highlighted in the original post. The net effect is so strong that any other platform that tries to enter the market either has to waste a lot of money (if they have them) or use the same techniques that are already in place to sustain their businness The choice is on the users, but for the majority of them it's not worth it until it's too late.
  - djeikyb 9y ago
    http://www.empowr.com http://www.empowr.com is a 10+ year old tech company with this as a premise.
smhost 9y ago
That's a very bizarre definition of love. Few people are happy about their addiction to an unhealthy habit. Don't you think it's disingenuous to talk about user preference without talking about reward hacking? I think the internet is actually worse in this respect because much of it is systematically designed to induce addiction with no upper limit. Your evolutionary arguments are also pretty bizarre and reductionist. Maybe we did evolve using verbal communication, but we didn't evolve to be schizophrenic voyeuristic mutes without face-to-face nonverbal feedback.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Can we stop framing arguments as "bizarre"? It's unduly personal. I don't think their arguments are bizarre, and it's better to meet them head-on than to insinuate they're weird.

walterstucco 9y ago

> We are talking about things that people don’t like but are forced to get anyway. - Driving: a lot of people drive, very few of them like it or they would learn how to do it properly - Public transport: 99,99% of people using public transport hate it - Going to the dentist - eating vegetables - taking kids to the pool and so on… all of this things are incredibly annoying to many, yet they have not failed

akoncius 9y ago
so watching ads is a job?
- walterstucco 9y ago
  In a way, it is. But I don't understand the connection. The core of the issue is the proverbial "worse is better" All the walled garden on the web are optimising one particular feature - engagement - leaving behind many others that are equally important if not more, like user's freedom or privacy. It's no wonder that investing so much money in getting users to subscribe and use the platform results in an increase of time spent by the users on the platform. It is orthogonal to the problem highlighted in the original post. The net effect is so strong that any other platform that tries to enter the market either has to waste a lot of money (if they have them) or use the same techniques that are already in place to sustain their businness The choice is on the users, but for the majority of them it's not worth it until it's too late.
- djeikyb 9y ago
  http://www.empowr.com http://www.empowr.com is a 10+ year old tech company with this as a premise.

smhost 9y ago

That's a very bizarre definition of love. Few people are happy about their addiction to an unhealthy habit. Don't you think it's disingenuous to talk about user preference without talking about reward hacking? I think the internet is actually worse in this respect because much of it is systematically designed to induce addiction with no upper limit. Your evolutionary arguments are also pretty bizarre and reductionist. Maybe we did evolve using verbal communication, but we didn't evolve to be schizophrenic voyeuristic mutes without face-to-face nonverbal feedback.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Can we stop framing arguments as "bizarre"? It's unduly personal. I don't think their arguments are bizarre, and it's better to meet them head-on than to insinuate they're weird.