12 ms·

If we just eliminated subsidies in the oil & gas world, I can promise you the economy will move towards renewable extremely fast. Make it a phase out of two -

If we just eliminated subsidies in the oil & gas world, I can promise you the economy will move towards renewable extremely fast. Make it a phase out of two - four years..., it would boost sales of EV's and our entire transportation network much more quick than EV tax credits would, AND, it would be a fair market for once! It would spur innovation, create many jobs, we would lead the world once again in regards towards moving to a 100% renewable economy, etc... so many things. The fat, old pigs/politicians of the O&G industry need to be shown the door... It's 2017... we can do this now. Not to mention the extra long term taxpayer savings on currently increasing medical costs...

rconti 9y ago
Of course, electric cars are typically charged via some kind of fossil fuel so to a certain extent they also benefit from these subsidies -- just not as much.
lostlogin 9y ago
Not being reliant on it would have a massive effect on the Middle East. Whatever stability they have now would go. That aspect would need a lot of care, and the West’s track record is not good.
- Cshelton 9y ago
  Sure, but that is something they need to figure out. The world cannot wait on the middle east to stabilize... they don't exactly have a great track record of doing so either..
- microcolonel 9y ago
  It's not clear that oil revenues actually improve stability in the Mideast. A considerable proportion of the revenue is quite literally diverted into forces intended to cause states to fail or stagnate.
  - kadenshep 9y ago
    >A considerable proportion of the revenue is quite literally diverted into forces intended to cause states to fail or stagnate. Yeah you're gonna need a credible source on that claim.
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      It's my understanding that, at their height, IS derived much of their revenue from captured oil assets. Note that I'm specifically not making the claim that all middle eastern oil revenue is tied to some terror group, but I'm pretty sure some of it is. Please do correct me if I am wrong.
      - lostlogin 9y ago
        That ISIS got funding from oil is not controversial that I’m aware of. The Independent did a lot of coverage of it at one stage. I’m sure they aren’t the only group too. Depending on your politics, the Kurds make money from oil too, but they are a state waiting to exist in my view.
      - kadenshep 9y ago
        That seems like a very specific and comparatively small time period that doesn't really stack up to the attempted scale of claiming that a considerable portion of revenue is used to destabilize middle east states. It gave them plenty of funds for sure (and only for a limited time) but saying it's a significant enough portion to the point of lending credence to the claim being discussed? I have trouble buying that without a source.
- taurath 9y ago
  China and India definitely can pay for a ton of oil.
ellyagg 9y ago
What's the biggest specific subsidy of oil or gas right now that you know about?
- Alex3917 9y ago
  > What's the biggest specific subsidy of oil or gas right now that you know about? The lack of a carbon cap. And also the fact that large ships and buildings are allowed to burn oil sludge without particulate filters.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Thorncorona 9y ago
  US gas subsidy, clean coal research subsidies, tax credits for oil transportation / refinement. Totalled together its in the 10s of billions range
- joshamania 9y ago
  Oh...the trillions we've spent on warfare in the Middle East comes to mind...
  - AtomicOrbital 9y ago
    Correct ... its pure deception to continue allowing governments to shoulder this military expense ... petrol conglomerates must pay the full cost to society of fighting these endless wars to permit continued resource extraction ... once this cost is factored into petrol at the pump then ALL green energy sources suddenly become the obvious low cost choice
- Cshelton 9y ago
  When taking in account of direct and indirect subsidies, see this IMF report: http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sonew070215a http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sonew07... There are many other reports by many other groups... Also consider the costs of using tax payer money to pay for/subsidies infastructure/reasearch in the fossil fuel industry.
pdeuchler 9y ago
That will never happen though, since the biggest O&G subsidy is the fact that the global oil market is denominated in US Dollars which coincidentally also happens to be the source of almost all US soft power.
- r00fus 9y ago
  Unless the US faces an actual challenge globally from China and/or Russia. One day we will wake up and the US Petrodollar will be the emperor's new clothes.
mschuster91 9y ago
> Make it a phase out of two - four years..., it would boost sales of EV's and our entire transportation network Doesn't work. Stuff simply does not scale that fast. Maybe the big automobile companies can scale up EV production, but there's still the battery bottleneck (which prompted Tesla to build the Gigafactory, but I am not aware of any other project even remotely near that scale - and Tesla sure as hell won't sell its batteries to competitors, they got enough demand with their cars + the energy storage stuff). Public transportation will only be buses that are able to scale. Even light/street rail takes years to get politically approved and then financed, and actual proper intercountry transportation takes decades to build - if it gets built at all given how expensive it is.

rconti 9y ago

Of course, electric cars are typically charged via some kind of fossil fuel so to a certain extent they also benefit from these subsidies -- just not as much.

lostlogin 9y ago

Not being reliant on it would have a massive effect on the Middle East. Whatever stability they have now would go. That aspect would need a lot of care, and the West’s track record is not good.

Cshelton 9y ago
Sure, but that is something they need to figure out. The world cannot wait on the middle east to stabilize... they don't exactly have a great track record of doing so either..
microcolonel 9y ago
It's not clear that oil revenues actually improve stability in the Mideast. A considerable proportion of the revenue is quite literally diverted into forces intended to cause states to fail or stagnate.
- kadenshep 9y ago
  >A considerable proportion of the revenue is quite literally diverted into forces intended to cause states to fail or stagnate. Yeah you're gonna need a credible source on that claim.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    It's my understanding that, at their height, IS derived much of their revenue from captured oil assets. Note that I'm specifically not making the claim that all middle eastern oil revenue is tied to some terror group, but I'm pretty sure some of it is. Please do correct me if I am wrong.
    - lostlogin 9y ago
      That ISIS got funding from oil is not controversial that I’m aware of. The Independent did a lot of coverage of it at one stage. I’m sure they aren’t the only group too. Depending on your politics, the Kurds make money from oil too, but they are a state waiting to exist in my view.
    - kadenshep 9y ago
      That seems like a very specific and comparatively small time period that doesn't really stack up to the attempted scale of claiming that a considerable portion of revenue is used to destabilize middle east states. It gave them plenty of funds for sure (and only for a limited time) but saying it's a significant enough portion to the point of lending credence to the claim being discussed? I have trouble buying that without a source.
taurath 9y ago
China and India definitely can pay for a ton of oil.

ellyagg 9y ago

What's the biggest specific subsidy of oil or gas right now that you know about?

Alex3917 9y ago
> What's the biggest specific subsidy of oil or gas right now that you know about? The lack of a carbon cap. And also the fact that large ships and buildings are allowed to burn oil sludge without particulate filters.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Thorncorona 9y ago
US gas subsidy, clean coal research subsidies, tax credits for oil transportation / refinement. Totalled together its in the 10s of billions range
joshamania 9y ago
Oh...the trillions we've spent on warfare in the Middle East comes to mind...
- AtomicOrbital 9y ago
  Correct ... its pure deception to continue allowing governments to shoulder this military expense ... petrol conglomerates must pay the full cost to society of fighting these endless wars to permit continued resource extraction ... once this cost is factored into petrol at the pump then ALL green energy sources suddenly become the obvious low cost choice
Cshelton 9y ago
When taking in account of direct and indirect subsidies, see this IMF report: http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sonew070215a http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sonew07... There are many other reports by many other groups... Also consider the costs of using tax payer money to pay for/subsidies infastructure/reasearch in the fossil fuel industry.

pdeuchler 9y ago

That will never happen though, since the biggest O&G subsidy is the fact that the global oil market is denominated in US Dollars which coincidentally also happens to be the source of almost all US soft power.

r00fus 9y ago
Unless the US faces an actual challenge globally from China and/or Russia. One day we will wake up and the US Petrodollar will be the emperor's new clothes.

mschuster91 9y ago

> Make it a phase out of two - four years..., it would boost sales of EV's and our entire transportation network Doesn't work. Stuff simply does not scale that fast. Maybe the big automobile companies can scale up EV production, but there's still the battery bottleneck (which prompted Tesla to build the Gigafactory, but I am not aware of any other project even remotely near that scale - and Tesla sure as hell won't sell its batteries to competitors, they got enough demand with their cars + the energy storage stuff). Public transportation will only be buses that are able to scale. Even light/street rail takes years to get politically approved and then financed, and actual proper intercountry transportation takes decades to build - if it gets built at all given how expensive it is.