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The fact that most people seem to think that it's okay to get sick from the diseases of aging, get frail, suffer, and die, and that we shouldn't try to do somet

The fact that most people seem to think that it's okay to get sick from the diseases of aging, get frail, suffer, and die, and that we shouldn't try to do something to fix that problem (really fix it, not just prolong suffering a bit). I think it's probably partly rationalization because they think it's inevitable (but it is not inevitable, and I'd like that to become a more mainstream view so we can hurry up and work on this problem), and partly ageism, which makes a lot of people think that old people have less value so their pain and loss isn't as bad.

brettnak 16y ago
I might be the only one who thinks this around here, but I think the concept of mortality is kind of beautiful. However, ask me about that when I'm facing my own and the answer might be different.
- MikeCapone 16y ago
  I think it's a really powerful concept, and like religion and superstition, I think it's fine in fiction (books and movies would be boring without that imagery). But in the real-world, it's just plain bad and we need to do something about it. Nobody is in favor of malaria or smallpox, but most people turn a blind eye to the diseases of aging even though they kill a lot more people. The real question is: If dying of old age didn't exist (if everybody stayed physically as fit as 25 years olds indefinitely, until they get hit by a truck or whatever), would we miss frailty and decrepitude? Would we invent death by slow diseases that make our bodies and minds fall apart? I kinda doubt it.
  - TheSOB88 16y ago
    You guys seem to think death isn't inevitable? Huh?
    - MikeCapone 16y ago
      Not death, just the diseases of aging (which aren't so different from other diseases in their effects, when it comes down to it). The general idea is that our bodies accumulate damage as a side product of metabolism (stuff that evolution hasn't equipped us to deal with - various long-lived molecules that we can't break down); over a certain threshold, that damage turns into pathologies. So your skin is less elastic, your arteries aren't as flexible, your immune system doesn't work as well, your brain accumulate beta amyloids that lead to alzheimer's, etc. If we could periodically repair that damage before the pathologies happen, we could potentially keep young bodies indefinitely and cure many diseases without having to understand how metabolism works, thus reducing human suffering tremendously (about 150k deaths each day). For more on this, check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthroughs-Lifetime/dp/B001O9CHRA/ http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthrough... Or these presentations: http://citywire.kuluvalley.com/player.html?pguid=E586AD51-418F-C8CE-442B-828A9164D788&vtguid=70B21F9A-4BCA-C090-62F2-F77C0B007FE2 http://citywire.kuluvalley.com/player.html?pguid=E586AD51-41... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554766938711591377&hl=en# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554766938711591377&... Or the work of this foundation (I'm in no way affiliated with them - I'm just a fan and individual donor): http://www.sens.org http://www.sens.org
      - TheSOB88 16y ago
        So that would result in immortality, right? How else would people die? The obvious problem here is overpopulation. What's your stance on that?
Locke1689 16y ago
I come from a family history of physicians. My father is an MD and professor at Johns Hopkins. It's difficult to conceive how little we know about the human body and biology in general. People are working on things related to it, but we're really nowhere near even understanding the problem. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't being worked on.
- MikeCapone 16y ago
  Indeed. But the approach that I support is a maintenance & repair approach. We don't need to know how metabolism works, or how to modify it for it to work. We just need to understand the types of damage that accumulate in our bodies as we age (and there aren't that many kinds) and periodically repair it before it reaches a certain threshold. The problem is, almost nobody is working on that approach. It's all gerontology or geriatry, trying to squeeze out a year or two out of someone already frail and sick, or to mess with metabolism, something that will take way too long and might never be completely successful. The third approach - aka the engineering approach - has a chance to work in our lifetimes IF we do the hard work and stop looking the other way. And few things are more worthwhile to support; if we bring forward these therapies by even 1 week, that's over a million lives saved. If you want to know more about the biology of this, I recommend that you read this (and the papers cited): http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthroughs-Lifetime/dp/B001O9CHRA/ http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthrough... If you need more details, you can easily contact the SENS foundation or the authors of this book directly (they usually answer emails really quickly). This info should be enough to help you make up your mind about the feasibility of this kind of project. And if you need the latest science, there's a scientific journal called Rejuvenation Research that contains the most recent studies.
  - zb 16y ago
    I wasn't planning to post in this thread, but now you mention it, what annoys me is people who seem to think that their particular utopia will be the first to have no unintended consequences whatsoever. Double the annoyance factor when they refer to an engineering approach to the problem, given that the whole utopian premise is such stupendously bad engineering in the first place.
orangecat 16y ago
I couldn't agree more. What can we do about it, other than donating to organizations like SENS?

brettnak 16y ago

I might be the only one who thinks this around here, but I think the concept of mortality is kind of beautiful. However, ask me about that when I'm facing my own and the answer might be different.

MikeCapone 16y ago
I think it's a really powerful concept, and like religion and superstition, I think it's fine in fiction (books and movies would be boring without that imagery). But in the real-world, it's just plain bad and we need to do something about it. Nobody is in favor of malaria or smallpox, but most people turn a blind eye to the diseases of aging even though they kill a lot more people. The real question is: If dying of old age didn't exist (if everybody stayed physically as fit as 25 years olds indefinitely, until they get hit by a truck or whatever), would we miss frailty and decrepitude? Would we invent death by slow diseases that make our bodies and minds fall apart? I kinda doubt it.
- TheSOB88 16y ago
  You guys seem to think death isn't inevitable? Huh?
  - MikeCapone 16y ago
    Not death, just the diseases of aging (which aren't so different from other diseases in their effects, when it comes down to it). The general idea is that our bodies accumulate damage as a side product of metabolism (stuff that evolution hasn't equipped us to deal with - various long-lived molecules that we can't break down); over a certain threshold, that damage turns into pathologies. So your skin is less elastic, your arteries aren't as flexible, your immune system doesn't work as well, your brain accumulate beta amyloids that lead to alzheimer's, etc. If we could periodically repair that damage before the pathologies happen, we could potentially keep young bodies indefinitely and cure many diseases without having to understand how metabolism works, thus reducing human suffering tremendously (about 150k deaths each day). For more on this, check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthroughs-Lifetime/dp/B001O9CHRA/ http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthrough... Or these presentations: http://citywire.kuluvalley.com/player.html?pguid=E586AD51-418F-C8CE-442B-828A9164D788&vtguid=70B21F9A-4BCA-C090-62F2-F77C0B007FE2 http://citywire.kuluvalley.com/player.html?pguid=E586AD51-41... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554766938711591377&hl=en# http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554766938711591377&... Or the work of this foundation (I'm in no way affiliated with them - I'm just a fan and individual donor): http://www.sens.org http://www.sens.org
    - TheSOB88 16y ago
      So that would result in immortality, right? How else would people die? The obvious problem here is overpopulation. What's your stance on that?

Locke1689 16y ago

I come from a family history of physicians. My father is an MD and professor at Johns Hopkins. It's difficult to conceive how little we know about the human body and biology in general. People are working on things related to it, but we're really nowhere near even understanding the problem. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't being worked on.

MikeCapone 16y ago
Indeed. But the approach that I support is a maintenance & repair approach. We don't need to know how metabolism works, or how to modify it for it to work. We just need to understand the types of damage that accumulate in our bodies as we age (and there aren't that many kinds) and periodically repair it before it reaches a certain threshold. The problem is, almost nobody is working on that approach. It's all gerontology or geriatry, trying to squeeze out a year or two out of someone already frail and sick, or to mess with metabolism, something that will take way too long and might never be completely successful. The third approach - aka the engineering approach - has a chance to work in our lifetimes IF we do the hard work and stop looking the other way. And few things are more worthwhile to support; if we bring forward these therapies by even 1 week, that's over a million lives saved. If you want to know more about the biology of this, I recommend that you read this (and the papers cited): http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthroughs-Lifetime/dp/B001O9CHRA/ http://www.amazon.com/Ending-Aging-Rejuvenation-Breakthrough... If you need more details, you can easily contact the SENS foundation or the authors of this book directly (they usually answer emails really quickly). This info should be enough to help you make up your mind about the feasibility of this kind of project. And if you need the latest science, there's a scientific journal called Rejuvenation Research that contains the most recent studies.
- zb 16y ago
  I wasn't planning to post in this thread, but now you mention it, what annoys me is people who seem to think that their particular utopia will be the first to have no unintended consequences whatsoever. Double the annoyance factor when they refer to an engineering approach to the problem, given that the whole utopian premise is such stupendously bad engineering in the first place.

orangecat 16y ago

I couldn't agree more. What can we do about it, other than donating to organizations like SENS?