4 ms·

A friend of mine said that when they were young they went to a museum and saw two lungs: one of a daily smoker, and one of someone who simply lived in a dense c

by sova 9y ago

A friend of mine said that when they were young they went to a museum and saw two lungs: one of a daily smoker, and one of someone who simply lived in a dense city with poor air quality. The lungs looked almost the same shade of gray. Of course, the smoker's lungs were worse, but air pollution from the bus is not exactly good for you.

dionidium 9y ago
It's not just that there are so many other risks present in cities -- e.g. it's probably more dangerous just to be walking there in the first place than it is to pass a smoker -- it's that, like, how potent do you imagine cigarette smoke to be that just passing near some every once in a while is going to significantly harm you? I can't even begin to imagine what kind of model of the world you'd have to be working with to believe that, which is why I deliberately chose the word hysteria to describe it.
- loco5niner 9y ago
  I guess I just equate smoking with poison. I think it's equally illogical to be purposefully ingesting poison on a daily basis. For myself, I prefer zero purposeful ingestion, even if I am ignorant of the effects.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    We [myself former] are not simply poisoning ourselves for fun. There are a multitude of benefits afforded by nicotine in the short term, including improved focus, reduced anxiety, and of course the habit of a smoke break is great for clearing the mind. Your problem is that you, as you say, equate smoking with poison. That's hyperbolic. One could say the same about sugar, but it would sound just as ridiculous. It's almost as if smokers are dehumanized these days, and non smokers deliberately ignore reasons to smoke. There has also been ample evidence of neuroprotective effects of nicotine[0][1] for decades now. I dont mean to suggest that you go out and start a pack a day habit, but my point is that walking past a smoker won't give you cancer. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19714494 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19714494 [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772120 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772120
    - loco5niner 9y ago
      Those short-term benefits are far outweighed by the long-term negative effects, and there are far better ways to enjoy those short-term benefits (there may be a few specific scenarios I am ignorant of, diseases, etc, but I'm sure those are few and far between) The real problem is people selling short-term benefits over long-term consequences.
      - dionidium 9y ago
        "The real problem is people selling short-term benefits over long-term consequences." No, that's not it at all. If that's all it was, then I'd have no qualms or quibbles; that's a choice for each individual to make. The power of the secondhand-smoke argument is that it catapults this debate out of the realm of individual choice. Now those nefarious smokers are harming you, too! They must be stopped! This is the key you need to unlock smoking bans. You can't get any of that done without the overreach on secondhand smoke.
        loco5niner 9y ago
        Oh I see. You believe that second-hand smoke does no harm. I defer to the American Cancer Society, the Center for Disease Control, and the National Cancer Institute. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/tobacco-and-cancer/secondhand-smoke.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/tobacco-and-canc... https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...
        dionidium 9y ago
        I don't know what you think the studies on this say, but I assure you none of them support the position that it's dangerous to walk past someone smoking. Again, it's only because there's a deliberate hysteria around this issue that my claim seems even remotely controversial to you. And, yes, even the CDC is capable of hyperbole: Secondhand smoke harms children and adults, and the only way to fully protect nonsmokers is to eliminate smoking in all homes, worksites, and public places.1,2,3 Yes, I mean, that's trivially true. Eliminating all smoke in the world is the only way to ever truly be safe <cue scary music>.

by sova 9y ago

dionidium 9y ago

It's not just that there are so many other risks present in cities -- e.g. it's probably more dangerous just to be walking there in the first place than it is to pass a smoker -- it's that, like, how potent do you imagine cigarette smoke to be that just passing near some every once in a while is going to significantly harm you? I can't even begin to imagine what kind of model of the world you'd have to be working with to believe that, which is why I deliberately chose the word hysteria to describe it.

loco5niner 9y ago
I guess I just equate smoking with poison. I think it's equally illogical to be purposefully ingesting poison on a daily basis. For myself, I prefer zero purposeful ingestion, even if I am ignorant of the effects.
- nnfy 9y ago
  We [myself former] are not simply poisoning ourselves for fun. There are a multitude of benefits afforded by nicotine in the short term, including improved focus, reduced anxiety, and of course the habit of a smoke break is great for clearing the mind. Your problem is that you, as you say, equate smoking with poison. That's hyperbolic. One could say the same about sugar, but it would sound just as ridiculous. It's almost as if smokers are dehumanized these days, and non smokers deliberately ignore reasons to smoke. There has also been ample evidence of neuroprotective effects of nicotine[0][1] for decades now. I dont mean to suggest that you go out and start a pack a day habit, but my point is that walking past a smoker won't give you cancer. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19714494 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19714494 [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772120 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772120
  - loco5niner 9y ago
    Those short-term benefits are far outweighed by the long-term negative effects, and there are far better ways to enjoy those short-term benefits (there may be a few specific scenarios I am ignorant of, diseases, etc, but I'm sure those are few and far between) The real problem is people selling short-term benefits over long-term consequences.
    - dionidium 9y ago
      "The real problem is people selling short-term benefits over long-term consequences." No, that's not it at all. If that's all it was, then I'd have no qualms or quibbles; that's a choice for each individual to make. The power of the secondhand-smoke argument is that it catapults this debate out of the realm of individual choice. Now those nefarious smokers are harming you, too! They must be stopped! This is the key you need to unlock smoking bans. You can't get any of that done without the overreach on secondhand smoke.
      - loco5niner 9y ago
        Oh I see. You believe that second-hand smoke does no harm. I defer to the American Cancer Society, the Center for Disease Control, and the National Cancer Institute. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/tobacco-and-cancer/secondhand-smoke.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/tobacco-and-canc... https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...
        dionidium 9y ago
        I don't know what you think the studies on this say, but I assure you none of them support the position that it's dangerous to walk past someone smoking. Again, it's only because there's a deliberate hysteria around this issue that my claim seems even remotely controversial to you. And, yes, even the CDC is capable of hyperbole: Secondhand smoke harms children and adults, and the only way to fully protect nonsmokers is to eliminate smoking in all homes, worksites, and public places.1,2,3 Yes, I mean, that's trivially true. Eliminating all smoke in the world is the only way to ever truly be safe <cue scary music>.