6 ms·

Well if a lot of people were willing to pay more for DRM-free, or if people avoided DRM'ed content, it would make business sense to do that. Its easier to effec

by ksk 9y ago

Well if a lot of people were willing to pay more for DRM-free, or if people avoided DRM'ed content, it would make business sense to do that. Its easier to effect change from the bottom up, than demanding a company change their policies just because you disagree with them. For example, EMI experimented with selling their entire catalog DRM-free on itunes for 30 cents more per track in 2007. I don't think it turned out well for them. That's the only one I remember off the top of my head. Seems like you're interested in this topic so you may have other examples.

shmerl 9y ago
What makes sense is to offer an option instead of saying "we know better what you should want, so we won't offer it". Music sells just fine DRM-free on Bandcamp. Games sell fine DRM-free on GOG. So I don't see any reason for films to be different. Lack of DRM-free video has nothing to do with lack of demand, but more with paranoia and backwards thinking of some legacy media execs. See https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree_movies/post499 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree...
- imustbeevil 9y ago
  Developer of The Banner Saga when asked if the second game would be on GOG. > sadly once we released DRM Free for The Banner Saga we saw our game get pirated like wildfire. Which is something we're keen to avoid as much possible. We haven't given it much thought at this point to be honest when it comes to GoG. https://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/0/392184522702606796/#c392184522702930550 https://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/0/39218452...
  - shmerl 9y ago
    Which is a pretty clueless response. Avoiding GOG will only increase such pirating (by decreasing legal sources for the game). Developers should know better.
    - imustbeevil 9y ago
      > Avoiding GOG will only increase such pirating (by decreasing legal sources for the game). Until you provide a single source you're not saying anything worth responding to.
      - shmerl 9y ago
        Not sure how those developers measured piracy in general. But piracy is naturally increased by limiting legal sources for buying something. Other developers commented on this very issue, saying that existing DRM increased piracy.
        imustbeevil 9y ago
        I'm not going to continue this off topic conversation.
        shmerl 9y ago
        > The new Assassins Creed has been pirated Zero times because they made the DRM as invasive as possible. It was also not bought by people who see this obtrusive nonsense which drains CPU resources and degrades performance as something to avoid. In the end, they only lost sales. I wouldn't call Ubisoft or any other legacy publisher rational. Rather irrational control freaks. Besides, Ubisoft's DRM will be broken, same as all others.
        imustbeevil 9y ago
        See above.
        shmerl 9y ago
        Where did you get data that DRM prevented lost sales? It's vaporware. Your link doesn't show in any way, that if they'd have released it DRM free, they wouldn't have more sales in result. It's boring that you support anti-user methodology like DRM and try to justify it. It's been debunked multiple times.
- ksk 9y ago
  Music sells fine with DRM too, so do games. Not sure what your point is. I showed you that EMI offered an option with and without DRM. We know the results. Do you have examples where DRM and non-DRM products were offered, and users overwhelmingly chose the non-DRM product? I'm genuinely curious to see if it has ever happened and how successful it was. In any case, DRM is one of those things that I don't see going away. It might change its form. People have gotten used to the convenience of not owning digital goods and merely renting them, and companies have gotten used to making money off of keeping users running on their subscription treadmill. The easiest way to combat DRM is to start gofundme / indie gogo campaigns, where the developer gets paid upfront, and that way they don't care about DRM since they already made money.
  - shmerl 9y ago
    > Music sells fine with DRM too, so do games. Not sure what your point is. My point is, that releasing for more people = more profit. And the opposite - not serving the demand = lost sales. It's pretty straightforward. DRM-free markets show there is demand. And those who refuse to release DRM-free show they don't do it not because of money, but for some side, shady reasons. Not sure what your EMI example shows. They offered with DRM and without DRM, and then just with DRM, but it sounds like they didn't address the audience right. I.e. they should offer in all stores, not in one place exclusively. > The easiest way to combat DRM is to start gofundme / indie gogo campaigns, where the developer gets paid upfront, and that way they don't care about DRM since they already made money. DRM is not about money, it's about control (i.e. power). A different kind of urge some have. That's why using rational business arguments often doesn't work with such people. Control freaks don't care about lost profits, if in the end they feel "we are in charge". > In any case, DRM is one of those things that I don't see going away. It was broken through for music and games. Film industry is the one most plagued by it. And I agree - I see no sign of progress in it. It's too backwards thinking.

by ksk 9y ago

shmerl 9y ago

What makes sense is to offer an option instead of saying "we know better what you should want, so we won't offer it". Music sells just fine DRM-free on Bandcamp. Games sell fine DRM-free on GOG. So I don't see any reason for films to be different. Lack of DRM-free video has nothing to do with lack of demand, but more with paranoia and backwards thinking of some legacy media execs. See https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree_movies/post499 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree...

imustbeevil 9y ago
Developer of The Banner Saga when asked if the second game would be on GOG. > sadly once we released DRM Free for The Banner Saga we saw our game get pirated like wildfire. Which is something we're keen to avoid as much possible. We haven't given it much thought at this point to be honest when it comes to GoG. https://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/0/392184522702606796/#c392184522702930550 https://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/0/39218452...
- shmerl 9y ago
  Which is a pretty clueless response. Avoiding GOG will only increase such pirating (by decreasing legal sources for the game). Developers should know better.
  - imustbeevil 9y ago
    > Avoiding GOG will only increase such pirating (by decreasing legal sources for the game). Until you provide a single source you're not saying anything worth responding to.
    - shmerl 9y ago
      Not sure how those developers measured piracy in general. But piracy is naturally increased by limiting legal sources for buying something. Other developers commented on this very issue, saying that existing DRM increased piracy.
      - imustbeevil 9y ago
        I'm not going to continue this off topic conversation.
        shmerl 9y ago
        > The new Assassins Creed has been pirated Zero times because they made the DRM as invasive as possible. It was also not bought by people who see this obtrusive nonsense which drains CPU resources and degrades performance as something to avoid. In the end, they only lost sales. I wouldn't call Ubisoft or any other legacy publisher rational. Rather irrational control freaks. Besides, Ubisoft's DRM will be broken, same as all others.
        imustbeevil 9y ago
        See above.
        shmerl 9y ago
        Where did you get data that DRM prevented lost sales? It's vaporware. Your link doesn't show in any way, that if they'd have released it DRM free, they wouldn't have more sales in result. It's boring that you support anti-user methodology like DRM and try to justify it. It's been debunked multiple times.
ksk 9y ago
Music sells fine with DRM too, so do games. Not sure what your point is. I showed you that EMI offered an option with and without DRM. We know the results. Do you have examples where DRM and non-DRM products were offered, and users overwhelmingly chose the non-DRM product? I'm genuinely curious to see if it has ever happened and how successful it was. In any case, DRM is one of those things that I don't see going away. It might change its form. People have gotten used to the convenience of not owning digital goods and merely renting them, and companies have gotten used to making money off of keeping users running on their subscription treadmill. The easiest way to combat DRM is to start gofundme / indie gogo campaigns, where the developer gets paid upfront, and that way they don't care about DRM since they already made money.
- shmerl 9y ago
  > Music sells fine with DRM too, so do games. Not sure what your point is. My point is, that releasing for more people = more profit. And the opposite - not serving the demand = lost sales. It's pretty straightforward. DRM-free markets show there is demand. And those who refuse to release DRM-free show they don't do it not because of money, but for some side, shady reasons. Not sure what your EMI example shows. They offered with DRM and without DRM, and then just with DRM, but it sounds like they didn't address the audience right. I.e. they should offer in all stores, not in one place exclusively. > The easiest way to combat DRM is to start gofundme / indie gogo campaigns, where the developer gets paid upfront, and that way they don't care about DRM since they already made money. DRM is not about money, it's about control (i.e. power). A different kind of urge some have. That's why using rational business arguments often doesn't work with such people. Control freaks don't care about lost profits, if in the end they feel "we are in charge". > In any case, DRM is one of those things that I don't see going away. It was broken through for music and games. Film industry is the one most plagued by it. And I agree - I see no sign of progress in it. It's too backwards thinking.