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> boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin

by nikcub 9y ago

> boasting much faster and cheaper transactions and real anonymity Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin transaction this morning. The average and median transaction fees between the two networks have been pretty close for a while I like Monero but it has some way to go - it needs a light client, multisig completed, and hasn't really had to confront any scaling issues yet (already at 30GB+ blockchain with 4-5k transactions per day). At the same time the other cryptos are progressing rapidly on the one huge advantage Monero has - Ethereum has added zk-SNARKs and there are all sorts of proposals and developments on Bitcoin now that malleability has been addressed and the new opcodes added edit: also re: Bitcoin News - most of what I read is about the ongoing Segwit2x saga, but it's a bit difficult to avoid the price when it is on such a tear

john_alan 9y ago
A) XMR Tx set to low priority will usually ship in next block (within 2 mins) with 5 ring size at fee of 30cent. Not sure what you were doing. B) ZKSnarks will never deprecate XMR, they bring the caveats of trusted being required, inability to audit coin supply and inherently DO NOT provide fungibility. It’s no wonder xmr price is in the doldrums. Even the smart guys on HN are misinformed about it.
- DennisP 9y ago
  Fwiw, ring signatures are also getting implemented on Ethereum. (But I do think Monero makes a good case for their "mandatory privacy" stance.)
  - john_alan 9y ago
    Yup. Eth is good, ring on eth will not provide transactional privacy though.
nikolay 9y ago
I see hundreds of my friends sending money free with Venmo each month. I know nobody having any slightest interest in Bitcoin or the likes. Once in a while, somebody would ask me if it makes sense for them to invest some cash into Bitcoin as they've heard about some crazy growth, but when I explain to them some, they all decide it's too risky, and those who are the anarchist type stick to gold.
- mrb 9y ago
  Given that it's risky, you could (should) have told them to just invest a tiny amount, like 1% of their savings. That's what I told some folks, and now their investment is up 10× so their 1% investment turned into 10% and their are really happy about it.
  - nikolay 9y ago
    There's a moral side of each investment, too, and this one here is not a positive one.
    - coryfklein 9y ago
      Whoa, did you just escalate to saying that owning bitcoin is immoral? What is immoral about owning bitcoin?
      - nikolay 9y ago
        I strongly believe so. Given its only utility as a low-class investment too and illicit trade payment method, how can it be moral? The substantial environmental toll and funding Chinese enterprises is not a positive thing either. I'd be happy if you prove me wrong.
        coryfklein 9y ago
        1. Owning bitcoin doesn't encourage illicit trade. Cash is used for illicit trade, but it's not immoral to own cash. 2. Owning bitcoin incurs only the environmental toll for the initial transfer into your wallet. If the $0.50 of electricity used to validate your initial transfer bothers you, buy some carbon emissions to offset that. But you probably waste much more electricity leaving Halo on pause for 10 minutes while you grab a snack. 3. If you think Chinese enterprises are immoral (which I would love to hear your reasoning on if true), then don't buy bitcoin from a Chinese enterprise. They don't have a monopoly on the currency. Also, what do you mean by "low-class investment"? Do you mean high risk? The definition of investment is: "a thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future." Given the track record of Bitcoin, I would say that so far it has proven to be a very good investment for any who have bought it so far. It's hard to argue with history. Or maybe you are claiming to have knowledge about why the years-long trend of bitcoin growth will cease soon? Has something fundamentally changed about it recently?
cgb223 9y ago
> Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin transaction this morning. The average and median transaction fees between the two networks have been pretty close for a while I might be wrong, but isnt the fee based on how much of the currency that you're sending? Like, how much were you sending for each currency? If the amounts werent similar, the fees might not be accurate for similar amounts
- sbenitoj 9y ago
  The fees have nothing to do with how much money you’re sending, you could send $1 or $1,000,000 and it would cost the same thing. The fees are based on how large the transaction is (in terms of kilobytes, that is, not amount). Some transactions have more inputs/outputs than others (and thus take up more space in terms of kilobytes than others) but that’s not a function of the amount being sent.
ktta 9y ago
>Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month Correct me if I'm wrong, but why couldn't you just decrease the fees you used? Monero has an adaptive blocksize, and transactions won't really get dropped if you used very low fees (unless you are very unlucky) The mining dynamics are very different than Bitcoin in a way that it adjusts the blocksize to keep TX costs low. This isn't scalable but looks like they are working on it. (Search for 'hyc' on reddit and monero forums). I still haven't completely understood all of it, but here's[1] an explanation. [1]:https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/4567 https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/4567
jondubois 9y ago
Monero is Proof of Work, so it's not much better than Bitcoin. Proof of Stake is far superior and Delegated Proof of Stake is another step up from that. Delegated proof of stake is more resistant to forks since it's easier for delegates to reach consensus on decisions.
mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
Did you do a segwit transaction? My fees were in the pennies range...

by nikcub 9y ago

john_alan 9y ago

A) XMR Tx set to low priority will usually ship in next block (within 2 mins) with 5 ring size at fee of 30cent. Not sure what you were doing. B) ZKSnarks will never deprecate XMR, they bring the caveats of trusted being required, inability to audit coin supply and inherently DO NOT provide fungibility. It’s no wonder xmr price is in the doldrums. Even the smart guys on HN are misinformed about it.

DennisP 9y ago
Fwiw, ring signatures are also getting implemented on Ethereum. (But I do think Monero makes a good case for their "mandatory privacy" stance.)
- john_alan 9y ago
  Yup. Eth is good, ring on eth will not provide transactional privacy though.

nikolay 9y ago

I see hundreds of my friends sending money free with Venmo each month. I know nobody having any slightest interest in Bitcoin or the likes. Once in a while, somebody would ask me if it makes sense for them to invest some cash into Bitcoin as they've heard about some crazy growth, but when I explain to them some, they all decide it's too risky, and those who are the anarchist type stick to gold.

mrb 9y ago
Given that it's risky, you could (should) have told them to just invest a tiny amount, like 1% of their savings. That's what I told some folks, and now their investment is up 10× so their 1% investment turned into 10% and their are really happy about it.
- nikolay 9y ago
  There's a moral side of each investment, too, and this one here is not a positive one.
  - coryfklein 9y ago
    Whoa, did you just escalate to saying that owning bitcoin is immoral? What is immoral about owning bitcoin?
    - nikolay 9y ago
      I strongly believe so. Given its only utility as a low-class investment too and illicit trade payment method, how can it be moral? The substantial environmental toll and funding Chinese enterprises is not a positive thing either. I'd be happy if you prove me wrong.
      - coryfklein 9y ago
        1. Owning bitcoin doesn't encourage illicit trade. Cash is used for illicit trade, but it's not immoral to own cash. 2. Owning bitcoin incurs only the environmental toll for the initial transfer into your wallet. If the $0.50 of electricity used to validate your initial transfer bothers you, buy some carbon emissions to offset that. But you probably waste much more electricity leaving Halo on pause for 10 minutes while you grab a snack. 3. If you think Chinese enterprises are immoral (which I would love to hear your reasoning on if true), then don't buy bitcoin from a Chinese enterprise. They don't have a monopoly on the currency. Also, what do you mean by "low-class investment"? Do you mean high risk? The definition of investment is: "a thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future." Given the track record of Bitcoin, I would say that so far it has proven to be a very good investment for any who have bought it so far. It's hard to argue with history. Or maybe you are claiming to have knowledge about why the years-long trend of bitcoin growth will cease soon? Has something fundamentally changed about it recently?

cgb223 9y ago

> Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month. Cost me about $3 to send a Bitcoin transaction this morning. The average and median transaction fees between the two networks have been pretty close for a while I might be wrong, but isnt the fee based on how much of the currency that you're sending? Like, how much were you sending for each currency? If the amounts werent similar, the fees might not be accurate for similar amounts

sbenitoj 9y ago
The fees have nothing to do with how much money you’re sending, you could send $1 or $1,000,000 and it would cost the same thing. The fees are based on how large the transaction is (in terms of kilobytes, that is, not amount). Some transactions have more inputs/outputs than others (and thus take up more space in terms of kilobytes than others) but that’s not a function of the amount being sent.

ktta 9y ago

>Cost me over $4 to send Monero transactions last month Correct me if I'm wrong, but why couldn't you just decrease the fees you used? Monero has an adaptive blocksize, and transactions won't really get dropped if you used very low fees (unless you are very unlucky) The mining dynamics are very different than Bitcoin in a way that it adjusts the blocksize to keep TX costs low. This isn't scalable but looks like they are working on it. (Search for 'hyc' on reddit and monero forums). I still haven't completely understood all of it, but here's[1] an explanation. [1]:https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/4567 https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/4567

jondubois 9y ago

Monero is Proof of Work, so it's not much better than Bitcoin. Proof of Stake is far superior and Delegated Proof of Stake is another step up from that. Delegated proof of stake is more resistant to forks since it's easier for delegates to reach consensus on decisions.

mrhappyunhappy 9y ago

Did you do a segwit transaction? My fees were in the pennies range...