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Minor point, but he puts Python in with software that "almost never breaks" on update. Really? Am I missing something? Maybe he just hasn't tried running Python

Minor point, but he puts Python in with software that "almost never breaks" on update. Really? Am I missing something? Maybe he just hasn't tried running Python 3 yet...

orf 9y ago
You're missing that Python 3 is clearly labeled as a breaking change? He is talking about changes that are not labeled as breaking changes but do infact break things.
mikeash 9y ago
Python 3 is a similar language with a similar name to Python 2. It shouldn’t be considered an update, nor applied as one.
- magicalhippo 9y ago
  Yet the Python 3 executable has the same name as the Python 2 executable...
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Only on Arch and Windows... All other Linux distribution have python3 and macOS binary is also python3.
  - computerfriend 9y ago
    No they don't. At least one of them has a number after it.
    - magicalhippo 9y ago
      I got both Python 2 and Python 3 installed on my machine, from the official distribution, and both have "python.exe", no numbers.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Yet a huge number of Python modules are both valid Python 2 code and Python 3 code.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Sure, they're similar enough that a single file can be valid in both with less effort than most language pairs. That doesn't mean it's an update, any more than C is an upgrade to Lisp because I can make a file that's valid in both.
- taeric 9y ago
  I get the idea, but this is user hostile. If it shouldn't be seen as an upgrade, it should have had a new name. :( Especially if it is going to be a forced migration someday? (I'm assuming python2 support will eventually stop?)
detaro 9y ago
One major breaking release in how many years, clearly announced as such and with parallel support for the old version for a long time (so you didn't just update python and it broke). Fits quite well under "almost never breaks". Or have their been issues with minor releases? I haven't come across any I can remember, but I might be wrong. Maybe some things were deprecated and then removed?
sieabah 9y ago
If you're talking about Python 2 -> 3, I think you're misunderstanding his point.
dec0dedab0de 9y ago
He says Python packages, many of which bend over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility. (I wish Django were one of them)
acobster 9y ago
Can't edit orig comment...yes I misunderstood the point about explicit breaking changes. I recently watched Rich Hickey's "spec-ulation" talk referenced elsewhere in this thread, which takes an extreme view (tl;dr SemVer sucks and we shouldn't have breaking changes ever), so that's where my mind was. Thanks for the clarity, all.

Minor point, but he puts Python in with software that "almost never breaks" on update. Really? Am I missing something? Maybe he just hasn't tried running Python 3 yet...

orf 9y ago

You're missing that Python 3 is clearly labeled as a breaking change? He is talking about changes that are not labeled as breaking changes but do infact break things.

mikeash 9y ago

Python 3 is a similar language with a similar name to Python 2. It shouldn’t be considered an update, nor applied as one.

magicalhippo 9y ago
Yet the Python 3 executable has the same name as the Python 2 executable...
- vetinari 9y ago
  Only on Arch and Windows... All other Linux distribution have python3 and macOS binary is also python3.
- computerfriend 9y ago
  No they don't. At least one of them has a number after it.
  - magicalhippo 9y ago
    I got both Python 2 and Python 3 installed on my machine, from the official distribution, and both have "python.exe", no numbers.
majewsky 9y ago
Yet a huge number of Python modules are both valid Python 2 code and Python 3 code.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Sure, they're similar enough that a single file can be valid in both with less effort than most language pairs. That doesn't mean it's an update, any more than C is an upgrade to Lisp because I can make a file that's valid in both.
taeric 9y ago
I get the idea, but this is user hostile. If it shouldn't be seen as an upgrade, it should have had a new name. :( Especially if it is going to be a forced migration someday? (I'm assuming python2 support will eventually stop?)

detaro 9y ago

One major breaking release in how many years, clearly announced as such and with parallel support for the old version for a long time (so you didn't just update python and it broke). Fits quite well under "almost never breaks". Or have their been issues with minor releases? I haven't come across any I can remember, but I might be wrong. Maybe some things were deprecated and then removed?

sieabah 9y ago

If you're talking about Python 2 -> 3, I think you're misunderstanding his point.

dec0dedab0de 9y ago

He says Python packages, many of which bend over backwards to maintain backwards compatibility. (I wish Django were one of them)

acobster 9y ago

Can't edit orig comment...yes I misunderstood the point about explicit breaking changes. I recently watched Rich Hickey's "spec-ulation" talk referenced elsewhere in this thread, which takes an extreme view (tl;dr SemVer sucks and we shouldn't have breaking changes ever), so that's where my mind was. Thanks for the clarity, all.