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Don't forget that these professors have often spent their whole life studying and publishing and working their way through the "machine" to get to their positio

by liedra 16y ago

Don't forget that these professors have often spent their whole life studying and publishing and working their way through the "machine" to get to their positions. Many of those years they would have been paid a pittance for their work. You don't go into academia for the money, you really don't. It might pay off somewhere down the line but until then you're overworked, severely underpaid, and have massive debts to pay off (if you're American).

jdhopeunique 16y ago
Yes, these professors have spent a good portion of their life slaving away so that now they can be at the top. These professors slaved away in hopes for a number of things: time off, freedom to research, being able to work with bright young students, etc. They weren't the only ones who had dreams or who slaved away. What about the grad student who drops out, wants to switch to a different field(a side effect of the system is overspecialization), who chooses the wrong advisor or institution? What about the bright, but poor, undergraduate who would like to have a self-study option and a small fee for tests? (Yes there is that option for some lower-level courses but is curiously absent for higher-level courses. Similarly, universities within the same state often don't accept transfer credits from each other except for a few courses.) If people should be paid for their hard work, then a lot of people are underpaid. People though are paid for their productivity. These professors and grad students who slave away are not productive. They are not producing what our society needs. They are feeding all their work into the machine and what is the output of this "machine" that gets fed all the blood, sweat, tears, and tax payer money? Good research and teaching? I neglected to mention the bundling together of research and teaching. Instead of doing one or the other well, both provide excuses for mediocrity. At middle and bottom tier schools effective teaching is possible but faculty use their research as a justification for high salaries. The students learn the material outside of class mostly. There's very little in-class discussion and the only justification teachers have for their salaries is their "research". A good teacher, as far as the students are concerned, is one who gives fair and/or lenient tests and isn't a boring lecturer. The teaching part of their jobs could be replaced by a textbook, some video lectures, perhaps an online homework system, and tests at a testing center. Such a system would make a good business model if the current system wasn't so deeply rooted in our society. As I mentioned before, a college degree is a prerequisite for a lot of state jobs and is a barrier designed to prop up the system.
- liedra 16y ago
  Yeah, I agree that there are some academics who are really not good or suited to teaching. In fact many academic jobs that aren't specifically "lecturer" jobs don't even ask about teaching experience. I'm going into my 2nd post-doctorate and the only teaching experience I've had was back before I was doing my PhD and tutored undergrads for a bit of cash (I didn't even learn how to prepare a course!). I'm actually a bit annoyed about that because I actually really enjoy teaching, and although I also enjoy research I think I would really quite like to be a bit more well-rounded on that side. But I think that a lot of this can be solved through education of faculty staff in how to actually teach. Some universities actually have this, the university I am going to be working at from next month has a course I can attend that will teach me how to teach, and although I've done it ad hoc before, I think I will definitely get something out of it, since although I enjoy teaching, I don't really know how to plan a course. And I think these sorts of courses really should not be a one-off either: people do get "stale" after a few years if they're continually doing the same things every year. However, I think you're being a bit melodramatic about the system. Or perhaps the US system just really does suck, because I really enjoyed doing my undergrad degree in Australia, and really felt as though it gave me more than "a piece of paper" for a job (I wasn't really originally going to go into academia, I wanted to do other things, and sort of fell into academia sideways). I also felt as though the teaching was really vital: if not just in content, but in imparting enthusiasm and interest in a particular subject. Anyway I can't really comment on the credit stuff since I have NFI about the US system. Sorry you've become so disillusioned by universities and such, because around the world there are still some academics who actually give a shit about quality teaching and research. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and look outside the US?

by liedra 16y ago

jdhopeunique 16y ago

Yes, these professors have spent a good portion of their life slaving away so that now they can be at the top. These professors slaved away in hopes for a number of things: time off, freedom to research, being able to work with bright young students, etc. They weren't the only ones who had dreams or who slaved away. What about the grad student who drops out, wants to switch to a different field(a side effect of the system is overspecialization), who chooses the wrong advisor or institution? What about the bright, but poor, undergraduate who would like to have a self-study option and a small fee for tests? (Yes there is that option for some lower-level courses but is curiously absent for higher-level courses. Similarly, universities within the same state often don't accept transfer credits from each other except for a few courses.) If people should be paid for their hard work, then a lot of people are underpaid. People though are paid for their productivity. These professors and grad students who slave away are not productive. They are not producing what our society needs. They are feeding all their work into the machine and what is the output of this "machine" that gets fed all the blood, sweat, tears, and tax payer money? Good research and teaching? I neglected to mention the bundling together of research and teaching. Instead of doing one or the other well, both provide excuses for mediocrity. At middle and bottom tier schools effective teaching is possible but faculty use their research as a justification for high salaries. The students learn the material outside of class mostly. There's very little in-class discussion and the only justification teachers have for their salaries is their "research". A good teacher, as far as the students are concerned, is one who gives fair and/or lenient tests and isn't a boring lecturer. The teaching part of their jobs could be replaced by a textbook, some video lectures, perhaps an online homework system, and tests at a testing center. Such a system would make a good business model if the current system wasn't so deeply rooted in our society. As I mentioned before, a college degree is a prerequisite for a lot of state jobs and is a barrier designed to prop up the system.

liedra 16y ago
Yeah, I agree that there are some academics who are really not good or suited to teaching. In fact many academic jobs that aren't specifically "lecturer" jobs don't even ask about teaching experience. I'm going into my 2nd post-doctorate and the only teaching experience I've had was back before I was doing my PhD and tutored undergrads for a bit of cash (I didn't even learn how to prepare a course!). I'm actually a bit annoyed about that because I actually really enjoy teaching, and although I also enjoy research I think I would really quite like to be a bit more well-rounded on that side. But I think that a lot of this can be solved through education of faculty staff in how to actually teach. Some universities actually have this, the university I am going to be working at from next month has a course I can attend that will teach me how to teach, and although I've done it ad hoc before, I think I will definitely get something out of it, since although I enjoy teaching, I don't really know how to plan a course. And I think these sorts of courses really should not be a one-off either: people do get "stale" after a few years if they're continually doing the same things every year. However, I think you're being a bit melodramatic about the system. Or perhaps the US system just really does suck, because I really enjoyed doing my undergrad degree in Australia, and really felt as though it gave me more than "a piece of paper" for a job (I wasn't really originally going to go into academia, I wanted to do other things, and sort of fell into academia sideways). I also felt as though the teaching was really vital: if not just in content, but in imparting enthusiasm and interest in a particular subject. Anyway I can't really comment on the credit stuff since I have NFI about the US system. Sorry you've become so disillusioned by universities and such, because around the world there are still some academics who actually give a shit about quality teaching and research. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and look outside the US?