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They definitely seem to have hit a plateau in terms of demand which was declining before they started to slash prices in order to move inventory. The S/X and a

They definitely seem to have hit a plateau in terms of demand which was declining before they started to slash prices in order to move inventory. The S/X and are old now and the car market requires new models to keep sales going. That combined with the approaching launches of other high end luxury electric cars does not bode well for future S/X sales. The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilot 2.0 could certainly be a factor as well.

dmix 9y ago
> The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilot 2.0 Was there more than that accident with the old version? I havent heard much about this...
- opencl 9y ago
  HW2 has been out for over a year and has yet to reach feature parity with HW1. I would call that a "failure to deliver". Earlier this year Musk said “November or December of this year, we should be able to go from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York, no controls touched at any point during the entire journey.” It's November and they don't even have automatic windshield wipers working. See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGexNNm8rOXB24qQ1bdIWtVhdPVhPign6F28ZrI1pqM/edit#gid=1631729099 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGexNNm8rOXB24qQ1bdI...
- chc 9y ago
  The negative press was basically just 15000 different ways of saying "A car once crashed while on Autopilot, and I have a theory about how it means the whole product is a sham." There's really not much more to it besides me-tooing. But the failure to deliver is real. The entire Autopilot project is way behind schedule. AP2 was supposed to reach feature parity last year, but it didn't until quite recently, and it's still widely considered not to be as good as experience as the original Autopilot yet.
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  https://www.fastcompany.com/4043602/a-driver-claimed-teslas-autopilot-crashed-his-car-and-now-teslas-stock-has-dropped https://www.fastcompany.com/4043602/a-driver-claimed-teslas-... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4276810/Dashboard-camera-footage-captures-crash-Tesla-autopilot.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4276810/Dashboard-ca... https://qz.com/783009/the-scary-similarities-between-teslas-tsla-deadly-autopilot-crashes/ https://qz.com/783009/the-scary-similarities-between-teslas-... https://jalopnik.com/autopilot-blamed-for-tesla-crashing-and-rolling-into-a-1796963962 https://jalopnik.com/autopilot-blamed-for-tesla-crashing-and... https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/tesla-model-x-autopilot-crash-semi/ https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/tesla-model-x-autopilot-crash... http://autoweek.com/article/autonomous-cars/tesla-autopilot-dangerously-defective-lawsuit-claims http://autoweek.com/article/autonomous-cars/tesla-autopilot-... http://fortune.com/2016/05/26/tesla-autopilot-crash/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/26/tesla-autopilot-crash/ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-customer-is-always-wrong-tesla-lets-out-self-driving-car-data-when-it-suits https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-custo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/03/28/tesla-autopilot-car-hits-police-motorcycle/99719978/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/03/28/te... https://www.teslarati.com/rare-tesla-model-x-founder-series-crashes-driver-unsure-autopilot-blames/ https://www.teslarati.com/rare-tesla-model-x-founder-series-... https://www.teslarati.com/lawsuit-alleges-tesla-death-not-happened-another-car/ https://www.teslarati.com/lawsuit-alleges-tesla-death-not-ha... http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/self-driving-tesla-crashes-into-truck-on-dutch-motorway/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/self-driving-t... This is a sample of the first 100 articles from Google News on "Tesla Autopilot Crash" - in total you have about 10 unique incidents with 100s of stories in different outlets written about it. Lots of sensational headlines and a lot of the incidents are pretty dubious about what the actual cause is but to casual readers its adds up to a cloud of doubt about Tesla repeated across many big name media sources. Most of these same media sources also run plenty of enthusiastic coverage on Tesla so it really depends on your pre-judgements what you take away from it. Tech enthusiasts will tend to minimize the negative stories whereas people not interested in tech who are more safety concerned will give them much more weight.
  - dmix 9y ago
    Thanks, that's why I asked, Googling it led me down a rabbit hole.
NegativeLatency 9y ago
Anecdotally the Tesla brand is at an iteresection of wealth and Silicon Valley elitism that is incredibly unappealing to people. Maybe the market for electric cars is larger than the market for a tesla specifcally.
- addicted 9y ago
  I think what really damaged the Tesla brand was going with my cousins to pick up his >100k Model X. 1) They had done the paperwork wrong and hadn’t informed his bank about some additional charges so it required an additional hour for them to get that sorted before my cousin basically just paid that additional amount upfront. 2) There were scratches in quite a few places that were noticed by us and cleaned up once we mentioned them. My cousin has purchased a couple of BMWs in the past for a lot less and never seen that before. 3) Some parts were not fitting well and had to be adjusted. 4) The autopilot to remove the car from the garage doesnt work because the garage is at the top of a slight incline. This is pretty common in many US garages. Hopefully this is just a software fix. 5) The overall car quality simply doesn’t match up to what you’d expect from a 100k car. That being said, it’s still a pleasure to drive and a really nice car. He can’t go back to driving an ICE anymore. Tesla does seem to have a lot of quality control issues which may have been to,reared by the initial set of buyers that will become more of a problem with a less forgiving next wave of potential customers. And a lot of their solutions currently appear very manual and ad hoc. Hopefully they can improve on them soon.

dmix 9y ago

> The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilot 2.0 Was there more than that accident with the old version? I havent heard much about this...

opencl 9y ago
HW2 has been out for over a year and has yet to reach feature parity with HW1. I would call that a "failure to deliver". Earlier this year Musk said “November or December of this year, we should be able to go from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York, no controls touched at any point during the entire journey.” It's November and they don't even have automatic windshield wipers working. See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGexNNm8rOXB24qQ1bdIWtVhdPVhPign6F28ZrI1pqM/edit#gid=1631729099 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGexNNm8rOXB24qQ1bdI...
chc 9y ago
The negative press was basically just 15000 different ways of saying "A car once crashed while on Autopilot, and I have a theory about how it means the whole product is a sham." There's really not much more to it besides me-tooing. But the failure to deliver is real. The entire Autopilot project is way behind schedule. AP2 was supposed to reach feature parity last year, but it didn't until quite recently, and it's still widely considered not to be as good as experience as the original Autopilot yet.
saas_co_de 9y ago
https://www.fastcompany.com/4043602/a-driver-claimed-teslas-autopilot-crashed-his-car-and-now-teslas-stock-has-dropped https://www.fastcompany.com/4043602/a-driver-claimed-teslas-... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4276810/Dashboard-camera-footage-captures-crash-Tesla-autopilot.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4276810/Dashboard-ca... https://qz.com/783009/the-scary-similarities-between-teslas-tsla-deadly-autopilot-crashes/ https://qz.com/783009/the-scary-similarities-between-teslas-... https://jalopnik.com/autopilot-blamed-for-tesla-crashing-and-rolling-into-a-1796963962 https://jalopnik.com/autopilot-blamed-for-tesla-crashing-and... https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/tesla-model-x-autopilot-crash-semi/ https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/tesla-model-x-autopilot-crash... http://autoweek.com/article/autonomous-cars/tesla-autopilot-dangerously-defective-lawsuit-claims http://autoweek.com/article/autonomous-cars/tesla-autopilot-... http://fortune.com/2016/05/26/tesla-autopilot-crash/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/26/tesla-autopilot-crash/ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-customer-is-always-wrong-tesla-lets-out-self-driving-car-data-when-it-suits https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-custo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/03/28/tesla-autopilot-car-hits-police-motorcycle/99719978/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/03/28/te... https://www.teslarati.com/rare-tesla-model-x-founder-series-crashes-driver-unsure-autopilot-blames/ https://www.teslarati.com/rare-tesla-model-x-founder-series-... https://www.teslarati.com/lawsuit-alleges-tesla-death-not-happened-another-car/ https://www.teslarati.com/lawsuit-alleges-tesla-death-not-ha... http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/self-driving-tesla-crashes-into-truck-on-dutch-motorway/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/04/self-driving-t... This is a sample of the first 100 articles from Google News on "Tesla Autopilot Crash" - in total you have about 10 unique incidents with 100s of stories in different outlets written about it. Lots of sensational headlines and a lot of the incidents are pretty dubious about what the actual cause is but to casual readers its adds up to a cloud of doubt about Tesla repeated across many big name media sources. Most of these same media sources also run plenty of enthusiastic coverage on Tesla so it really depends on your pre-judgements what you take away from it. Tech enthusiasts will tend to minimize the negative stories whereas people not interested in tech who are more safety concerned will give them much more weight.
- dmix 9y ago
  Thanks, that's why I asked, Googling it led me down a rabbit hole.

NegativeLatency 9y ago

Anecdotally the Tesla brand is at an iteresection of wealth and Silicon Valley elitism that is incredibly unappealing to people. Maybe the market for electric cars is larger than the market for a tesla specifcally.

addicted 9y ago
I think what really damaged the Tesla brand was going with my cousins to pick up his >100k Model X. 1) They had done the paperwork wrong and hadn’t informed his bank about some additional charges so it required an additional hour for them to get that sorted before my cousin basically just paid that additional amount upfront. 2) There were scratches in quite a few places that were noticed by us and cleaned up once we mentioned them. My cousin has purchased a couple of BMWs in the past for a lot less and never seen that before. 3) Some parts were not fitting well and had to be adjusted. 4) The autopilot to remove the car from the garage doesnt work because the garage is at the top of a slight incline. This is pretty common in many US garages. Hopefully this is just a software fix. 5) The overall car quality simply doesn’t match up to what you’d expect from a 100k car. That being said, it’s still a pleasure to drive and a really nice car. He can’t go back to driving an ICE anymore. Tesla does seem to have a lot of quality control issues which may have been to,reared by the initial set of buyers that will become more of a problem with a less forgiving next wave of potential customers. And a lot of their solutions currently appear very manual and ad hoc. Hopefully they can improve on them soon.