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What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Longer range and that's it? Good thing tesla has a lot of vertical investment in batte

What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Longer range and that's it? Good thing tesla has a lot of vertical investment in batteries. The market is very competitive.

sliken 9y ago
Fun to drive, relatively attractive, better safety features (active and passive), more interior space (nice for 4 adults, tight for 5), and access to the tesla supercharging network.
vvanders 9y ago
Supercharger network is a pretty big difference, ChaDeMo/CCS doesn't touch it in terms of real-world charging rates or deployment.
sundvor 9y ago
In an EV, longer range is a pretty substantial USP.
sxates 9y ago
Assuming you're talking about the new Leaf which isn't yet available in the US ... * 50-100% greater range * Better acceleration and handling (and RWD/AWD) * Access to the Tesla Supercharger network enabling long-distance travel * Much better UX and constant improvements in OTA software updates. * Buying from a company that is all-in on electrifying and decarbonizing the world, and isn't just dipping in their toes for the granola crowd. * A way more attractive car compared to the Leaf's awkward hatch
- maxerickson 9y ago
  The Leaf is even mostly aimed at fleet mileage scoring.
  - hackerguy99 9y ago
    >The Leaf is even mostly aimed at fleet mileage scoring. So it's your contention that 95% of HackerNews can see the future of EVs, but all the major manufacturers have and/or are going to miss it? Shaky bull thesis, my friend.
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      The range on the Leaf so far has not been especially good, limiting the market for it. The fleet bonus is not imaginary: https://insideevs.com/nissan-starts-selling-green-credits-puts-pressure-on-tesla-profits-and-ev-market-itself/ https://insideevs.com/nissan-starts-selling-green-credits-pu... My "vision" for the future of EVs is that increasing range and decreasing prices will drive adoption. With sales of the Leaf totaling about 2 weeks of US auto sales, it is risky to expect it to represent Nissan's strategy.
      - hackerguy99 9y ago
        >The range on the Leaf so far has not been especially good, limiting the market for it. And yet it's the best selling EV on the planet. It's foolish to compare a car that you can buy today (the Leaf) to a car that you might not be able to buy for another year or more (the Model 3), unless you think Nissan will improve nothing over that time.
hwillis 9y ago
> What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Much better value, larger size, better fuel economy, more conventional, more power, more range, and superchargers. Cost per mile of range: $200 for the 2018 leaf, 132 for the Model 3. 147 hp vs 258 hp, 10" of extra length and 6" of extra width, over twice the range at less than half the capacity. The Tesla is way superior to any other electric car on the road. The supercharger alone makes it the obvious buy for almost all consumers.
- sushisource 9y ago
  How about compared to the Bolt, though? The Bolt seems dramatically more competitive than the Leaf. 200hp, comparable range, and cheaper than the model 3. I think people getting fed up with the wait and switching to Bolts en-masse is a possible scenario. Imagine if Chevy made an ad targeting exactly that scenario.... (You can thank me later Chevy ad execs)
  - marcell 9y ago
    Maybe a matter of taste but I think the Model 3 looks much cooler than the Bolt: Bolt: http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/vehicles/2017/cars/bolt/mov/01-images/2017-bolt-ev-intro-01.jpg?imwidth=600 http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english... Model 3: https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/tesla-model-3-silver-prototype-promo-shot-headlands.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1600 https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/tesla-model-3-s...
  - Tiktaalik 9y ago
    The Bolt is a sort of unsexy compact hatchback so I can see it being unappealing to some groups of people even though from all accounts it's a fantastic product that matches the Model 3 in quality. Tesla should be concerned if GM expands their market by taking their Bolt technology and rapidly expanding into vehicle lines that appeal to other groups, such as a Bolt crossover or sexy Bolt hot hatch. Personally the Bolt looks a bit lame to me, but I'd consider one that was a bit sportier and that looked about as good as a Golf GTI.
asdfasdfasd333 9y ago
have you heard anyone say they wanted a leaf?
- jeffdavis 9y ago
  I have a leaf and I'm really happy with it. I'd like longer range but it hasn't been a real problem.
prostoalex 9y ago
Autopilot and supercharger network.

What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Longer range and that's it? Good thing tesla has a lot of vertical investment in batteries. The market is very competitive.

sliken 9y ago

Fun to drive, relatively attractive, better safety features (active and passive), more interior space (nice for 4 adults, tight for 5), and access to the tesla supercharging network.

vvanders 9y ago

Supercharger network is a pretty big difference, ChaDeMo/CCS doesn't touch it in terms of real-world charging rates or deployment.

sundvor 9y ago

In an EV, longer range is a pretty substantial USP.

sxates 9y ago

Assuming you're talking about the new Leaf which isn't yet available in the US ... * 50-100% greater range * Better acceleration and handling (and RWD/AWD) * Access to the Tesla Supercharger network enabling long-distance travel * Much better UX and constant improvements in OTA software updates. * Buying from a company that is all-in on electrifying and decarbonizing the world, and isn't just dipping in their toes for the granola crowd. * A way more attractive car compared to the Leaf's awkward hatch

maxerickson 9y ago
The Leaf is even mostly aimed at fleet mileage scoring.
- hackerguy99 9y ago
  >The Leaf is even mostly aimed at fleet mileage scoring. So it's your contention that 95% of HackerNews can see the future of EVs, but all the major manufacturers have and/or are going to miss it? Shaky bull thesis, my friend.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    The range on the Leaf so far has not been especially good, limiting the market for it. The fleet bonus is not imaginary: https://insideevs.com/nissan-starts-selling-green-credits-puts-pressure-on-tesla-profits-and-ev-market-itself/ https://insideevs.com/nissan-starts-selling-green-credits-pu... My "vision" for the future of EVs is that increasing range and decreasing prices will drive adoption. With sales of the Leaf totaling about 2 weeks of US auto sales, it is risky to expect it to represent Nissan's strategy.
    - hackerguy99 9y ago
      >The range on the Leaf so far has not been especially good, limiting the market for it. And yet it's the best selling EV on the planet. It's foolish to compare a car that you can buy today (the Leaf) to a car that you might not be able to buy for another year or more (the Model 3), unless you think Nissan will improve nothing over that time.

hwillis 9y ago

> What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Much better value, larger size, better fuel economy, more conventional, more power, more range, and superchargers. Cost per mile of range: $200 for the 2018 leaf, 132 for the Model 3. 147 hp vs 258 hp, 10" of extra length and 6" of extra width, over twice the range at less than half the capacity. The Tesla is way superior to any other electric car on the road. The supercharger alone makes it the obvious buy for almost all consumers.

sushisource 9y ago
How about compared to the Bolt, though? The Bolt seems dramatically more competitive than the Leaf. 200hp, comparable range, and cheaper than the model 3. I think people getting fed up with the wait and switching to Bolts en-masse is a possible scenario. Imagine if Chevy made an ad targeting exactly that scenario.... (You can thank me later Chevy ad execs)
- marcell 9y ago
  Maybe a matter of taste but I think the Model 3 looks much cooler than the Bolt: Bolt: http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/vehicles/2017/cars/bolt/mov/01-images/2017-bolt-ev-intro-01.jpg?imwidth=600 http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english... Model 3: https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/tesla-model-3-silver-prototype-promo-shot-headlands.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1600 https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/tesla-model-3-s...
- Tiktaalik 9y ago
  The Bolt is a sort of unsexy compact hatchback so I can see it being unappealing to some groups of people even though from all accounts it's a fantastic product that matches the Model 3 in quality. Tesla should be concerned if GM expands their market by taking their Bolt technology and rapidly expanding into vehicle lines that appeal to other groups, such as a Bolt crossover or sexy Bolt hot hatch. Personally the Bolt looks a bit lame to me, but I'd consider one that was a bit sportier and that looked about as good as a Golf GTI.

asdfasdfasd333 9y ago

have you heard anyone say they wanted a leaf?

jeffdavis 9y ago
I have a leaf and I'm really happy with it. I'd like longer range but it hasn't been a real problem.

prostoalex 9y ago

Autopilot and supercharger network.