4 ms·

Well let's try to understand it. This view must be rooted in the idea that such people have chosen their gender, and therefore chosen their gender pronoun. To n

Well let's try to understand it. This view must be rooted in the idea that such people have chosen their gender, and therefore chosen their gender pronoun. To not use it then would be like refusing to call someone by their preferred name. I don't know of widespread cases where people refuse to call others by their name after a name change, but I can imagine that if I changed my name and people refused to use my new name I would find that annoying. That said some trans people seem to want to introduce entirely new pronouns that didn't previously exist. That feels like overreach to me. Changing such a basic part of the language by force is not something to take lightly. Edit: to clarify, I would not support such a law myself!

bsbechtel 9y ago
I think the issue is using the law to punish people for not agreeing to do this.
hrefjedd 9y ago
This is really interesting because for example my mother tongue (hungarian) doesn't have grammatical genders. Like it's non existent (unlike in english, german, or any other germanic language).
whiddershins 9y ago
Annoying should not equal illegal.
irrational 9y ago
Wanting people to call you by a certain pronoun isn't the issue at all. Its creating a law that punishes people if they don't call you by your chosen pronoun. A law. Seriously, a law. I'm trying to think of any other laws that punish people if they don't say certain words.
- mFixman 9y ago
  There are already hate crime laws against other minorities.
  - irrational 9y ago
    Well, before today I would have said that refusing to call someone by a certain pronoun could never be prosecuted as a hate crime. If a majority of Democrats really do believe that there should be a law established that punishes people for not doing so, I'm not so sure... That seems as ridiculous as charging someone for a hate crime if they give a transgender person the side eye, but maybe it will happen.
civilian 9y ago
I agree that I would also find it annoying. We also have social mechanics around asking people's names, and referring to them when we don't know their name. I think one of the big complaints about the gendered pronouns is that there's no established social path for this. How do you predetermine the preferred gender pronoun of people? You should try a social experiment--- you should ask the preferred pronoun of everyone you interact with today. It'll be awkward, and it might even get you punched. Conservatives are saying: "hey, it's ridiculous to try to create a law about this, when it's possible to break this law in a truly innocent way." coffeefilterbrain, I'd also just like to point that we have no law against calling someone the wrong name, and it's generally regarded as a childish thing to do. So I think conservatives feel that SJWs are trying to apply a legal solution to a problem that has a social solution.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > I think one of the big complaints about the gendered pronouns... I'd say that's definitely a complaint, but a minor one. The bigger complaint is the Orwellian implications of language policing, though the person complaining might not reach for the word "Orwellian" exactly.
humanrebar 9y ago
> I can imagine that if I changed my name and people refused to use my new name I would find that annoying. It would also be annoying if my preferred pronoun was "sir" or "his/her majesty". That's an absurd example, obviously, but it's not entirely up to individuals to control language in their vicinity.
ng12 9y ago
> To not use it then would be like refusing to call someone by their preferred name So? I don't have to call you anything. I can call you Bob or Samantha or Dingus O'Frankenstein. Legally you can't do anything about it.
mywittyname 9y ago
You're right, it's annoying, but the solution should still be social, not legal. They could have a protest where every person is called by their opposite pronoun just to show how it feels.

bsbechtel 9y ago

I think the issue is using the law to punish people for not agreeing to do this.

hrefjedd 9y ago

This is really interesting because for example my mother tongue (hungarian) doesn't have grammatical genders. Like it's non existent (unlike in english, german, or any other germanic language).

whiddershins 9y ago

Annoying should not equal illegal.

irrational 9y ago

Wanting people to call you by a certain pronoun isn't the issue at all. Its creating a law that punishes people if they don't call you by your chosen pronoun. A law. Seriously, a law. I'm trying to think of any other laws that punish people if they don't say certain words.

mFixman 9y ago
There are already hate crime laws against other minorities.
- irrational 9y ago
  Well, before today I would have said that refusing to call someone by a certain pronoun could never be prosecuted as a hate crime. If a majority of Democrats really do believe that there should be a law established that punishes people for not doing so, I'm not so sure... That seems as ridiculous as charging someone for a hate crime if they give a transgender person the side eye, but maybe it will happen.

civilian 9y ago

I agree that I would also find it annoying. We also have social mechanics around asking people's names, and referring to them when we don't know their name. I think one of the big complaints about the gendered pronouns is that there's no established social path for this. How do you predetermine the preferred gender pronoun of people? You should try a social experiment--- you should ask the preferred pronoun of everyone you interact with today. It'll be awkward, and it might even get you punched. Conservatives are saying: "hey, it's ridiculous to try to create a law about this, when it's possible to break this law in a truly innocent way." coffeefilterbrain, I'd also just like to point that we have no law against calling someone the wrong name, and it's generally regarded as a childish thing to do. So I think conservatives feel that SJWs are trying to apply a legal solution to a problem that has a social solution.

humanrebar 9y ago
> I think one of the big complaints about the gendered pronouns... I'd say that's definitely a complaint, but a minor one. The bigger complaint is the Orwellian implications of language policing, though the person complaining might not reach for the word "Orwellian" exactly.

humanrebar 9y ago

> I can imagine that if I changed my name and people refused to use my new name I would find that annoying. It would also be annoying if my preferred pronoun was "sir" or "his/her majesty". That's an absurd example, obviously, but it's not entirely up to individuals to control language in their vicinity.

ng12 9y ago

> To not use it then would be like refusing to call someone by their preferred name So? I don't have to call you anything. I can call you Bob or Samantha or Dingus O'Frankenstein. Legally you can't do anything about it.

mywittyname 9y ago

You're right, it's annoying, but the solution should still be social, not legal. They could have a protest where every person is called by their opposite pronoun just to show how it feels.