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Being we've had foreign governments messing with our democracy using social media and hacking, this should be fully investigated. I'm not claiming they are inte

by tabtab 9y ago

Being we've had foreign governments messing with our democracy using social media and hacking, this should be fully investigated. I'm not claiming they are interfering, only saying we should rule out the possibility using our best forensics.

mattnewton 9y ago
I don’t know why we have to point fingers abroad, when there is so much incentive at home to fudge these results from the telecom companies about to be deregulated.
- sounds 9y ago
  It seems the goal is to rule it out -- in other words, use the political will centering on interference from abroad to kick start the investigation Ajit Pai is so loath to initiate. It's a political gambit.
- shostack 9y ago
  I think the concern here is that the line between home incentive and foreign incentive has become indecipherably blurred by recent events with this administration. We're finding out that people across the entire breadth of the Trump administration have ties to shady Russian dealings. Given the criticism over certain media outlets, and how those are increasingly intertwined with the delivery of said media, it seems a fair question to raise.
- tabtab 9y ago
  BOTH are problems.
curiousgal 9y ago
>messing with our democracy The U.S. has had a flawed democracy regardless of foreign meddling. Americans do not even elect their president directly. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Index_by_country_.282016.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Inde...
- blowski 9y ago
  I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but I can’t let the response go unsaid: democracy does not require direct elections. The founding fathers were not naive idiots who didn’t know how to design an election.
  - curiousgal 9y ago
    No offence by why are the founding fathers put on such a high pedestal in the U.S.? Everything they did had a reason but some of those reasons do not make sense anymore. The electoral college was put in place to give more saying to the south but that's not needed anymore. Gun ownership was put in place to protect from militias but again, that's not the case anymore, why keep all of these laws?
    - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
      > why keep all of these laws? Because it takes agreement from three quarters of the states to change the constitution for good reason, and three quarters of the states aren't convinced we don't need them anymore.
    - mudetroit 9y ago
      The Electoral college wasn't put in only at the request of the South. A number of smaller states wanted it (Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware); because, they feared political domination by the larger states. Same fundamental reason that there is both the House and the Senate. The big concession to the South with the 3/5 compromise which primarily had an effect upon the representation in the House, and correspondingly an effect on the Electoral College.
      - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > Same fundamental reason that there is both the House and the Senate. Actually the reason there is both the House and the Senate is that the Senate was intended to represent the voice of the states in the federal government. It wasn't supposed to be only about how many votes the people of each state get. Senators were originally appointed by the state legislatures. That was changed in a fit of populism in the early 20th century and has caused only problems ever since.
trumpownsyou420 9y ago
LOL LIBTARD.
ams6110 9y ago
But beyond that, why would you put an unauthenticated public comment form on the internet and not expect it to be filled with 90% rubbish. I mean, have we not learned anything? Public forms on the internet != democracy.
- smt88 9y ago
  > Public forms on the internet != democracy. I disagree. I think that's exactly what democracy is. That's why the Founding Fathers decided the US should be a republic.

by tabtab 9y ago

mattnewton 9y ago

I don’t know why we have to point fingers abroad, when there is so much incentive at home to fudge these results from the telecom companies about to be deregulated.

sounds 9y ago
It seems the goal is to rule it out -- in other words, use the political will centering on interference from abroad to kick start the investigation Ajit Pai is so loath to initiate. It's a political gambit.
shostack 9y ago
I think the concern here is that the line between home incentive and foreign incentive has become indecipherably blurred by recent events with this administration. We're finding out that people across the entire breadth of the Trump administration have ties to shady Russian dealings. Given the criticism over certain media outlets, and how those are increasingly intertwined with the delivery of said media, it seems a fair question to raise.
tabtab 9y ago
BOTH are problems.

curiousgal 9y ago

>messing with our democracy The U.S. has had a flawed democracy regardless of foreign meddling. Americans do not even elect their president directly. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Index_by_country_.282016.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Inde...

blowski 9y ago
I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but I can’t let the response go unsaid: democracy does not require direct elections. The founding fathers were not naive idiots who didn’t know how to design an election.
- curiousgal 9y ago
  No offence by why are the founding fathers put on such a high pedestal in the U.S.? Everything they did had a reason but some of those reasons do not make sense anymore. The electoral college was put in place to give more saying to the south but that's not needed anymore. Gun ownership was put in place to protect from militias but again, that's not the case anymore, why keep all of these laws?
  - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > why keep all of these laws? Because it takes agreement from three quarters of the states to change the constitution for good reason, and three quarters of the states aren't convinced we don't need them anymore.
  - mudetroit 9y ago
    The Electoral college wasn't put in only at the request of the South. A number of smaller states wanted it (Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware); because, they feared political domination by the larger states. Same fundamental reason that there is both the House and the Senate. The big concession to the South with the 3/5 compromise which primarily had an effect upon the representation in the House, and correspondingly an effect on the Electoral College.
    - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
      > Same fundamental reason that there is both the House and the Senate. Actually the reason there is both the House and the Senate is that the Senate was intended to represent the voice of the states in the federal government. It wasn't supposed to be only about how many votes the people of each state get. Senators were originally appointed by the state legislatures. That was changed in a fit of populism in the early 20th century and has caused only problems ever since.

trumpownsyou420 9y ago

LOL LIBTARD.

ams6110 9y ago

But beyond that, why would you put an unauthenticated public comment form on the internet and not expect it to be filled with 90% rubbish. I mean, have we not learned anything? Public forms on the internet != democracy.

smt88 9y ago
> Public forms on the internet != democracy. I disagree. I think that's exactly what democracy is. That's why the Founding Fathers decided the US should be a republic.