8 ms·

A Lesson from the Biggest Losers: Exercise Keeps Off the Weight

39 points by dodders 9y ago

s3cur3 9y ago
n = 14, with 7 of those regaining the weight they lost and 7 keeping it off.
- reallifepixel 9y ago
  I quit reading after I saw the sample size.
dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
From https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/12/studies-health-nutrition-sugar-coca-cola-marion-nestle https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/12/studies... "One of the most high profile examples of corporate meddling was the revelation last year that Coca-Cola had paid scientists to push the message that exercise was a more effective weight loss tool than cutting down on food and drink. The beverage giant went so far as to create a nonprofit called the Global Energy Balance Network to push the message that Americans spend too much time focusing on cutting calories, and not enough time exercising. Following an investigation by the New York Times, the nonprofit announced it was disbanding."
- justboxing 9y ago
  > push the message that exercise was a more effective weight loss tool than cutting down on food and drink This and the other message that fat, and not sugar is responsible for obesity[1]. [1] Source: http://sugarcoateddoc.com http://sugarcoateddoc.com
wccrawford 9y ago
Or perhaps those who put more effort into staying fit tend to do better at it in the long run? It's not just the exercise, but the willpower to keep working at it. Exercise is just 1 manifestation of that mindset.
iamcasen 9y ago
I'm genuinely curious how a person can eat very little, and still balloon up to 300 lbs. To keep it off, they have to work out 2 hours every single day? It just seems... insane? I wonder what kind of evolutionary adaptation that is...
- rarec 9y ago
  The truth is you just can't outwork a bad diet. A milkshake is worth an hour's worth of treadmill work. Diets are not something that you just hop on for a short time and leave, it's a lifestyle change. Some diets are more for short term benefit than others, like keto, but once you're down to a decent weight you have to manage it.
  - jonnycoder 9y ago
    I completely agree about not being able to out work a bad diet. On the other hand, cardio activity actually reduces my appetite and fills me up faster, and thus I believe that cardio helps more in that area relative to the actual burning of calories.
    - js2 9y ago
      Exercise and a good diet are virtuous cycle. However, as someone who runs a lot (7-14 hours/week), I can tell you that there is such a thing as being rungry. I actually find it easier to lose weight when I'm on the lower end of my mileage range. Also, it's easy to think "I ran so much, now I can eat more," which is a dangerous trap.
  - js2 9y ago
    > A milkshake is worth an hour's worth of treadmill work. Not even. The Five Guys base milkshake is 870 calories before adding any mix-ins or whipped cream[1]. An hour on a treadmill at 6 mph for a 150 lb person is 567 calories net (exclusive of basal metabolism), 675 calories total (inclusive of basal metabolism)[2]. [1] http://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/Public-Site/Files/NutritionAllergensMarch2017US.ashx?la=en http://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/Public-Site/Files/NutritionA... [2] https://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning https://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-a...
njarboe 9y ago
The human body is a complex adaptive system evolved over a billion years. How much a person weighs is going to be determined by many factors (genetic, mental, social, etc.) that vary in strength from person to person and change for each person over time. No simple solution that everyone can use to get to their "ideal" weight is likely. Scott Alexander has some interesting thoughts about it[1]. Edit: It seems to me that if exercise helps in keeping a low weight, it is likely that it is from some long term feed back loop. Having a bunch of extra fat is good and can get you through the famine when skinny people will die. But, if your life depends on running lot (hunting down antelope, running from hyenas, etc.) being heavy will be a disadvantage. The body tries to balance these out in some way (along with hundred of other things). A similar trade off happens in muscle formation. The body will only build up expensive to maintain muscle over a long period of time of pushing them near their existing limit. http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/26/anorexia-and-metabolic-set-point/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/26/anorexia-and-metabolic-... [1]
huac 9y ago
There was a thread a few days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15527849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15527849) about how much more important diet is than exercise to maintaining weight.
- valuearb 9y ago
  For the last three months I've been lifting weights 2-3 times a week, doing an hour of hiking up local mountains 2-3 times a week, and a jiu jitsu class once a week. I've lost maybe 3 lbs.
  - Someone 9y ago
    You may have lost more than that in fat and gained some muscle. The goal of exercise or diet shouldn’t be to lose weight; it should be to increase fitness and to decrease body fat percentage.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      My chest, shoulders and arms are bigger, but still pot bellied. Gonna take forever to get rid of that.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
  It tends to be that way because, to most people, it's much easier to e.g. forego 100 calories of eating than it is to burn 100 calories through exercise. The end result, though, is quite similar as far as weight loss is concerned. But weight loss and weight maintenance are different, with the former being a temporary intervention and likely a top life priority for the duration. As far as maintaining weight, this is much more about habits than anything else; many of us (certainly those with weight issues) will tend toward overeating if allowed. Regular mealtimes, recipe planning, and even calorie counting can work to mitigate this tendency. Exercise, too, is often a very important part of this; many find it easier to maintain a target weight while keeping an exercise regimen. Part of it may simply be that those who are disciplined or otherwise able to get regular exercise may also have better eating habits. But I think there is another effect that makes it easier to maintain a calorie balance when you have regular exercise.
jacquesm 9y ago
What you don't eat you don't need to burn off. I've found that I can get by on surprisingly little food if I am in my normal 9-to-5 business running mode. As soon as I start to move around and do stuff I need to eat a bit more, but desk work you can do on just about nothing and still maintain your weight.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
david927 9y ago
There are two ways to exercise: to create muscle which also increases metabolism so that you keep off the weight, try strength exercises and do cardio at a high heart rate (say 160bpm). To lose weight, surprisingly, lower the cardio heart rate so that you don't exceed 120bpm. My two cents: I've found that if I'm exercising regularly, I don't crave poor nutrition foods. I think it gives me natural energy so that I don't seek it subconsciously in sugary or fatty foods.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Dowwie 9y ago
This is not true. If you consume more than you burn, you don't keep off the weight. I know this all too well.
Thriptic 9y ago
Since I see stuff pop up like this all the time, I may as well write up how I went about cutting from 300+ to 215 lbs and subsequently putting on significant muscle mass and strength while keeping the weight off. Step 1: identify why you want to lose weight. The biggest reason people fail to lose weight is because they never really wanted to lose weight to begin with. What do I mean by this? A lot of people jump into weight loss without ever clearly articulating an overarching strong motivator for weight loss. The result is that when these people are confronted with hardship they are quick to give up because there is nothing driving them. Sit down and ask yourself why you want to be a different person. The more subjective the driver, the better. My reason was that I wanted to get a girlfriend and I knew I could never do this being very obese. Other good goals might be "I want to be around to walk my daughter down the aisle"; "I want to take my shirt off and have people be amazed"; "I want to live to see my grandchildren grow up"; "I want senpai to notice me" etc. Bad goals include "I want to be in good health"; "I want my cholesterol to lower by 20 points"; "I want to weigh X" and other proxies that no one really cares about (although these make excellent iterative goals to judge progress by). Once you have identified this goal, write it down 10 times on paper every morning and repeat it to yourself in your head throughout the day. This will help you internalize it and dissuade you from breaking adherence when you are tempted. This may seem useless, but if you can't even write something down ten times every morning then how are you going to go about changing multiple systems in your life? Step 2: pick your weapon Pretty much any validated diet will work if you actually follow it to the letter. Zone, Atkins/keto, paelo, low fat, calorie counting, IIFYM and more are all viable choices. Some are easier to adhere to than others given your lifestyle. For example if you eat our a lot then keto is easier than calorie counting because you don't really have access to the ingredients to tabulate them. Don't get hung up on what is "optimal". The best diet plan is the one you are going to actually follow. Also, remember that you want to pick something that you will be able to follow forever. People incorrectly think of weight management as a discrete process that gets abandoned once you hit your goal. This is incorrect. You will need to actively manage your weight your entire life. Step 3: measure You can't evaluate what you can't measure. Get a scale and record your weight each day. Get MyFitnessPal and record your meals. Step 4: design your systems The second biggest reason people fail at dieting is because they don't have any systems. They therefore flail around and eventually give up because they aren't making progress. Let's say you want to do keto. Design 3-4 meals in my fitness pal that you will enjoy that fit your meal plan. Eat one of those variants every day. This makes meal planning simple, cheap, and easy. The less cognitive overhead you have to exert to adhere to the program, the easier adherence will be. I would also recommend getting a standard time to do meal prep, clean up, record your bodyweight etc. Checklists can be very helpful here as can tracking the number of days you are adherent. Furthermore, set up your environment for success. Don't go out to eat with people until you are confident in your ability to say no to bad choices. Don't keep shitty food around in your home etc. Willpower is overrated, make non-adherence difficult. Your goal should be to construct a system where you have to use the least amount of willpower possible to adhere. I would definitely recommend setting up social adherence aids like telling your friends you are doing a diet so they can call you on it when you don't perform well or feel like giving up, putting money on the line, creating a X days adherent ticker etc. This will create more pressure on yourself to adhere Step 5: plan for contingencies You will inevitably find yourself in an edge case situation where dieting will be harder. It's important to think about common edge cases you may encounter and develop plans to deal with them. Common ones for me were things like: I'm stuck late at work - I had protein bars and powder in my desk - I had meal templates in my fitness for common meals at restaurants near my workplace I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere - I had protein bars and snacks in my backpack - I knew fast food meal options that fit my diet plan I have to go to an event where bad food will be served - I ate beforehand or afterwards and told people I am dieting. Not only were they cool with it but they were very supportive I'm going out drinking - I knew how many calories and carbs were in common beers and liquor by heart. - I purged my house of bad food so if I was drunk I couldn't eat it Eventually you will encounter a situation you haven't planned for, which is where your overarching goal, social pressure, habits, and willpower will kick in and save you if you let them. Power through. Step 6: move your ass Do some exercise. It doesn't really matter what. Similar to diet plan optimization, people often ask me what the "best" exercise is. My answer is always the one you will do. For me that is powerlifting. For other people it could be basketball, badminton, running, walking, bodybuilding, cycling, swimming, tree climbing whatever. As long as you do it regularly you will find success. I find it useful to also record progress in these endeavors as it helps adherence and also serves as an added motivator to diet. The one thing I would say is be reasonable. If you have never run before don't so something like interval training. You will fucking die and give up. Start with jogging and build up to that etc. Step 7: execute! You have your plans now go out and execute. The key to dieting success is adherence adherence adherence. NO CHEAT DAYS, NO CHEAT MEALS, NO EXCUSES OR SPECIAL OCASSIONS. For my birthday I would always turn down cake and eating out and instead diet extra hard as recognition of my hard work. My weight loss was my present, I didn't need more. Remember that if people try to exert social pressure on you to break your diet, it's because they are weak or they are not your friends. Your real loved ones will understand and support you when you turn down their birthday cake or invitation to go eat bad food. In a moment of weakness during my birthday I went to order a craft beer only to have my good friend tell me to stop fucking up. That's a true friend :D The big takeaway here is that this stuff really isn't that hard and the planning doesn't take much time. I literally did an hour of planning before I embarked on my diet after someone told me "you should try Atkins" and iterated as I went. Also, once you develop a set of reasonable systems, you won't need to worry about putting weight on because you can just modify your systems for maintenance instead of weight loss. A big reason why people put weight back on is because they treat weight management as dieting. To see how stupid this is, imagine you are trying to achieve financial stability and you start by saying "I'm going to slash my expenses to the bone and then when I'm debt free I can go back to normal". It's immediately obvious that this plan will lead to long term or even short term failure and yet people typically approach their weight this way. Please don't be that guy or girl. Also if you need help or are confused please feel free to ping me.
stefanwlb 9y ago
Rubbish! Exercise does barely anything for weight loss. And NYTimes is blatant fake news, they publish any rubbish as long as they are paid well. Sugar is the culprit , cut sugar and your body will return to normal state.
rasz 9y ago
another take on same study: https://lluniversity.com/are-biggest-loser-contestants-ruined-their-metabolisms/ https://lluniversity.com/are-biggest-loser-contestants-ruine...

39 points by dodders 9y ago

s3cur3 9y ago

n = 14, with 7 of those regaining the weight they lost and 7 keeping it off.

reallifepixel 9y ago
I quit reading after I saw the sample size.

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago

From https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/12/studies-health-nutrition-sugar-coca-cola-marion-nestle https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/12/studies... "One of the most high profile examples of corporate meddling was the revelation last year that Coca-Cola had paid scientists to push the message that exercise was a more effective weight loss tool than cutting down on food and drink. The beverage giant went so far as to create a nonprofit called the Global Energy Balance Network to push the message that Americans spend too much time focusing on cutting calories, and not enough time exercising. Following an investigation by the New York Times, the nonprofit announced it was disbanding."

justboxing 9y ago
> push the message that exercise was a more effective weight loss tool than cutting down on food and drink This and the other message that fat, and not sugar is responsible for obesity[1]. [1] Source: http://sugarcoateddoc.com http://sugarcoateddoc.com

wccrawford 9y ago

Or perhaps those who put more effort into staying fit tend to do better at it in the long run? It's not just the exercise, but the willpower to keep working at it. Exercise is just 1 manifestation of that mindset.

iamcasen 9y ago

I'm genuinely curious how a person can eat very little, and still balloon up to 300 lbs. To keep it off, they have to work out 2 hours every single day? It just seems... insane? I wonder what kind of evolutionary adaptation that is...

rarec 9y ago
The truth is you just can't outwork a bad diet. A milkshake is worth an hour's worth of treadmill work. Diets are not something that you just hop on for a short time and leave, it's a lifestyle change. Some diets are more for short term benefit than others, like keto, but once you're down to a decent weight you have to manage it.
- jonnycoder 9y ago
  I completely agree about not being able to out work a bad diet. On the other hand, cardio activity actually reduces my appetite and fills me up faster, and thus I believe that cardio helps more in that area relative to the actual burning of calories.
  - js2 9y ago
    Exercise and a good diet are virtuous cycle. However, as someone who runs a lot (7-14 hours/week), I can tell you that there is such a thing as being rungry. I actually find it easier to lose weight when I'm on the lower end of my mileage range. Also, it's easy to think "I ran so much, now I can eat more," which is a dangerous trap.
- js2 9y ago
  > A milkshake is worth an hour's worth of treadmill work. Not even. The Five Guys base milkshake is 870 calories before adding any mix-ins or whipped cream[1]. An hour on a treadmill at 6 mph for a 150 lb person is 567 calories net (exclusive of basal metabolism), 675 calories total (inclusive of basal metabolism)[2]. [1] http://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/Public-Site/Files/NutritionAllergensMarch2017US.ashx?la=en http://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/Public-Site/Files/NutritionA... [2] https://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-are-you-really-burning https://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/how-many-calories-a...

njarboe 9y ago

The human body is a complex adaptive system evolved over a billion years. How much a person weighs is going to be determined by many factors (genetic, mental, social, etc.) that vary in strength from person to person and change for each person over time. No simple solution that everyone can use to get to their "ideal" weight is likely. Scott Alexander has some interesting thoughts about it[1]. Edit: It seems to me that if exercise helps in keeping a low weight, it is likely that it is from some long term feed back loop. Having a bunch of extra fat is good and can get you through the famine when skinny people will die. But, if your life depends on running lot (hunting down antelope, running from hyenas, etc.) being heavy will be a disadvantage. The body tries to balance these out in some way (along with hundred of other things). A similar trade off happens in muscle formation. The body will only build up expensive to maintain muscle over a long period of time of pushing them near their existing limit. http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/26/anorexia-and-metabolic-set-point/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/26/anorexia-and-metabolic-... [1]

huac 9y ago

There was a thread a few days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15527849 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15527849) about how much more important diet is than exercise to maintaining weight.

valuearb 9y ago
For the last three months I've been lifting weights 2-3 times a week, doing an hour of hiking up local mountains 2-3 times a week, and a jiu jitsu class once a week. I've lost maybe 3 lbs.
- Someone 9y ago
  You may have lost more than that in fat and gained some muscle. The goal of exercise or diet shouldn’t be to lose weight; it should be to increase fitness and to decrease body fat percentage.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    My chest, shoulders and arms are bigger, but still pot bellied. Gonna take forever to get rid of that.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
It tends to be that way because, to most people, it's much easier to e.g. forego 100 calories of eating than it is to burn 100 calories through exercise. The end result, though, is quite similar as far as weight loss is concerned. But weight loss and weight maintenance are different, with the former being a temporary intervention and likely a top life priority for the duration. As far as maintaining weight, this is much more about habits than anything else; many of us (certainly those with weight issues) will tend toward overeating if allowed. Regular mealtimes, recipe planning, and even calorie counting can work to mitigate this tendency. Exercise, too, is often a very important part of this; many find it easier to maintain a target weight while keeping an exercise regimen. Part of it may simply be that those who are disciplined or otherwise able to get regular exercise may also have better eating habits. But I think there is another effect that makes it easier to maintain a calorie balance when you have regular exercise.

jacquesm 9y ago

What you don't eat you don't need to burn off. I've found that I can get by on surprisingly little food if I am in my normal 9-to-5 business running mode. As soon as I start to move around and do stuff I need to eat a bit more, but desk work you can do on just about nothing and still maintain your weight.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

david927 9y ago

There are two ways to exercise: to create muscle which also increases metabolism so that you keep off the weight, try strength exercises and do cardio at a high heart rate (say 160bpm). To lose weight, surprisingly, lower the cardio heart rate so that you don't exceed 120bpm. My two cents: I've found that if I'm exercising regularly, I don't crave poor nutrition foods. I think it gives me natural energy so that I don't seek it subconsciously in sugary or fatty foods.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Dowwie 9y ago

This is not true. If you consume more than you burn, you don't keep off the weight. I know this all too well.

Thriptic 9y ago

Since I see stuff pop up like this all the time, I may as well write up how I went about cutting from 300+ to 215 lbs and subsequently putting on significant muscle mass and strength while keeping the weight off. Step 1: identify why you want to lose weight. The biggest reason people fail to lose weight is because they never really wanted to lose weight to begin with. What do I mean by this? A lot of people jump into weight loss without ever clearly articulating an overarching strong motivator for weight loss. The result is that when these people are confronted with hardship they are quick to give up because there is nothing driving them. Sit down and ask yourself why you want to be a different person. The more subjective the driver, the better. My reason was that I wanted to get a girlfriend and I knew I could never do this being very obese. Other good goals might be "I want to be around to walk my daughter down the aisle"; "I want to take my shirt off and have people be amazed"; "I want to live to see my grandchildren grow up"; "I want senpai to notice me" etc. Bad goals include "I want to be in good health"; "I want my cholesterol to lower by 20 points"; "I want to weigh X" and other proxies that no one really cares about (although these make excellent iterative goals to judge progress by). Once you have identified this goal, write it down 10 times on paper every morning and repeat it to yourself in your head throughout the day. This will help you internalize it and dissuade you from breaking adherence when you are tempted. This may seem useless, but if you can't even write something down ten times every morning then how are you going to go about changing multiple systems in your life? Step 2: pick your weapon Pretty much any validated diet will work if you actually follow it to the letter. Zone, Atkins/keto, paelo, low fat, calorie counting, IIFYM and more are all viable choices. Some are easier to adhere to than others given your lifestyle. For example if you eat our a lot then keto is easier than calorie counting because you don't really have access to the ingredients to tabulate them. Don't get hung up on what is "optimal". The best diet plan is the one you are going to actually follow. Also, remember that you want to pick something that you will be able to follow forever. People incorrectly think of weight management as a discrete process that gets abandoned once you hit your goal. This is incorrect. You will need to actively manage your weight your entire life. Step 3: measure You can't evaluate what you can't measure. Get a scale and record your weight each day. Get MyFitnessPal and record your meals. Step 4: design your systems The second biggest reason people fail at dieting is because they don't have any systems. They therefore flail around and eventually give up because they aren't making progress. Let's say you want to do keto. Design 3-4 meals in my fitness pal that you will enjoy that fit your meal plan. Eat one of those variants every day. This makes meal planning simple, cheap, and easy. The less cognitive overhead you have to exert to adhere to the program, the easier adherence will be. I would also recommend getting a standard time to do meal prep, clean up, record your bodyweight etc. Checklists can be very helpful here as can tracking the number of days you are adherent. Furthermore, set up your environment for success. Don't go out to eat with people until you are confident in your ability to say no to bad choices. Don't keep shitty food around in your home etc. Willpower is overrated, make non-adherence difficult. Your goal should be to construct a system where you have to use the least amount of willpower possible to adhere. I would definitely recommend setting up social adherence aids like telling your friends you are doing a diet so they can call you on it when you don't perform well or feel like giving up, putting money on the line, creating a X days adherent ticker etc. This will create more pressure on yourself to adhere Step 5: plan for contingencies You will inevitably find yourself in an edge case situation where dieting will be harder. It's important to think about common edge cases you may encounter and develop plans to deal with them. Common ones for me were things like: I'm stuck late at work - I had protein bars and powder in my desk - I had meal templates in my fitness for common meals at restaurants near my workplace I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere - I had protein bars and snacks in my backpack - I knew fast food meal options that fit my diet plan I have to go to an event where bad food will be served - I ate beforehand or afterwards and told people I am dieting. Not only were they cool with it but they were very supportive I'm going out drinking - I knew how many calories and carbs were in common beers and liquor by heart. - I purged my house of bad food so if I was drunk I couldn't eat it Eventually you will encounter a situation you haven't planned for, which is where your overarching goal, social pressure, habits, and willpower will kick in and save you if you let them. Power through. Step 6: move your ass Do some exercise. It doesn't really matter what. Similar to diet plan optimization, people often ask me what the "best" exercise is. My answer is always the one you will do. For me that is powerlifting. For other people it could be basketball, badminton, running, walking, bodybuilding, cycling, swimming, tree climbing whatever. As long as you do it regularly you will find success. I find it useful to also record progress in these endeavors as it helps adherence and also serves as an added motivator to diet. The one thing I would say is be reasonable. If you have never run before don't so something like interval training. You will fucking die and give up. Start with jogging and build up to that etc. Step 7: execute! You have your plans now go out and execute. The key to dieting success is adherence adherence adherence. NO CHEAT DAYS, NO CHEAT MEALS, NO EXCUSES OR SPECIAL OCASSIONS. For my birthday I would always turn down cake and eating out and instead diet extra hard as recognition of my hard work. My weight loss was my present, I didn't need more. Remember that if people try to exert social pressure on you to break your diet, it's because they are weak or they are not your friends. Your real loved ones will understand and support you when you turn down their birthday cake or invitation to go eat bad food. In a moment of weakness during my birthday I went to order a craft beer only to have my good friend tell me to stop fucking up. That's a true friend :D The big takeaway here is that this stuff really isn't that hard and the planning doesn't take much time. I literally did an hour of planning before I embarked on my diet after someone told me "you should try Atkins" and iterated as I went. Also, once you develop a set of reasonable systems, you won't need to worry about putting weight on because you can just modify your systems for maintenance instead of weight loss. A big reason why people put weight back on is because they treat weight management as dieting. To see how stupid this is, imagine you are trying to achieve financial stability and you start by saying "I'm going to slash my expenses to the bone and then when I'm debt free I can go back to normal". It's immediately obvious that this plan will lead to long term or even short term failure and yet people typically approach their weight this way. Please don't be that guy or girl. Also if you need help or are confused please feel free to ping me.

stefanwlb 9y ago

Rubbish! Exercise does barely anything for weight loss. And NYTimes is blatant fake news, they publish any rubbish as long as they are paid well. Sugar is the culprit , cut sugar and your body will return to normal state.

rasz 9y ago

another take on same study: https://lluniversity.com/are-biggest-loser-contestants-ruined-their-metabolisms/ https://lluniversity.com/are-biggest-loser-contestants-ruine...