7 ms·

> Just because there were a few flawed studies is hardly a reason to take it as actionable information. It's interesting that you (someone apparently unaware o

> Just because there were a few flawed studies is hardly a reason to take it as actionable information. It's interesting that you (someone apparently unaware of the work in this area) is reducing my "a fair number" as "a few" and tainting them as "flawed" when all I did was to acknowledge "various shortcomings". Were you conscious of trying to minimise the weight of evidence without having actually seen it? I'm not judging you for it, it's normal, I'm just calling it out so that you're aware if you previously weren't. As for whether or not this is actionable, I'm not aware of anyone acting on the basis of diversity carrying a productivity dividend. As far as I've seen (my company works in this space) it's used as a supporting argument to help justify measures to reduce the effect of unconscious bias (a separate area of study) which carries its own dividend, i.e. better employees. > Has it even been determined that diversity leads to productivity or is it just that diversity is a result of the same thing the productivity is? That's right, correlation and causation are not the same. It's been correlated using real world company data, theorised under social capital models, observed under lab conditions relating to jury decision accuracy, and causally shown at a GDP level using computer models. There may be others. There may be publishing bias. There may be flaws. I've already spent enough time writing this so you can google them yourself. These studies each have various shortcomings, eg. self-reporting, scale, assumptions (in the case of the models) and relate to specific contexts rather than generally... so this is a case of the balance of evidence rather than "proven facts".

wanderer2323 9y ago
Have you noticed how you dodged the request to link the related studies by bringing disproportial attention to the rest of grandparent's post in a condescending manner? I'm not judging you for it, it's normal. Just calling you out. Also can you link what you consider to be representative studies on the topic?
- richmarr 9y ago
  You're right, it was a little condescending, I was irritated by the way hueving minimised the evidence without apparently knowing anything about it. (I'm sorry, hueving, that was immature of me.) wanderer2323, I used to cite studies but no longer consider it a useful way to discuss topics like this on HN. Too often it descends into methodology theatre and too rarely does it result in useful dialogue. So, with my apologies, no. I won't link to studies. If you're curious I've shared enough background in other comments for you to get started with your own research.
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    > Too often it descends into methodology theatre and too rarely does it result in useful dialogue. That is what happens when you present weak evidence. I have yet to see any convincing studies despite it being straightforward to test in small repeatable experiments. It is not hard to get 20 different 5 person teams to perform a complex task for a couple of weeks and see what impacts different types of diversity have.
    - richmarr 9y ago
      > That is what happens when you present weak evidence. In a perfectly rational world you would be right. That's not where we live though, is it.
    - richmarr 9y ago
      [Just to address the other points you raise because I was in a rush last time] > I have yet to see any convincing studies despite it being straightforward to test in small repeatable experiments. If these experiments are so "straightforward", and your resistance to these ideas is well-founded, then where are all the experiments demonstrating that there is no such effect? Alternatively if you believe publishing bias and/or feminist conspiracy are combining to quash all this budding anti-diversity research then why don't you run one yourself and show everyone how it's done? If you're not up for doing the actual experiment I'm happy to pass your protocol around for some feedback, maybe I could find someone to run the experiment for you. Maybe I can even help with funding.
      - sheepmullet 9y ago
        > then where are all the experiments That is exactly what I am asking you. Where are all the small scale experiments that show diversity in race/gender in a team lead to better outcomes? There are a lot of small scale studies on effective teamwork. I went through them a long time ago when I did my business degree. I don't recall any of them suggesting diversity of race / gender were large contributors. Business schools have been running small scale studies on effective teamwork for decades.

wanderer2323 9y ago

Have you noticed how you dodged the request to link the related studies by bringing disproportial attention to the rest of grandparent's post in a condescending manner? I'm not judging you for it, it's normal. Just calling you out. Also can you link what you consider to be representative studies on the topic?

richmarr 9y ago
You're right, it was a little condescending, I was irritated by the way hueving minimised the evidence without apparently knowing anything about it. (I'm sorry, hueving, that was immature of me.) wanderer2323, I used to cite studies but no longer consider it a useful way to discuss topics like this on HN. Too often it descends into methodology theatre and too rarely does it result in useful dialogue. So, with my apologies, no. I won't link to studies. If you're curious I've shared enough background in other comments for you to get started with your own research.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  > Too often it descends into methodology theatre and too rarely does it result in useful dialogue. That is what happens when you present weak evidence. I have yet to see any convincing studies despite it being straightforward to test in small repeatable experiments. It is not hard to get 20 different 5 person teams to perform a complex task for a couple of weeks and see what impacts different types of diversity have.
  - richmarr 9y ago
    > That is what happens when you present weak evidence. In a perfectly rational world you would be right. That's not where we live though, is it.
  - richmarr 9y ago
    [Just to address the other points you raise because I was in a rush last time] > I have yet to see any convincing studies despite it being straightforward to test in small repeatable experiments. If these experiments are so "straightforward", and your resistance to these ideas is well-founded, then where are all the experiments demonstrating that there is no such effect? Alternatively if you believe publishing bias and/or feminist conspiracy are combining to quash all this budding anti-diversity research then why don't you run one yourself and show everyone how it's done? If you're not up for doing the actual experiment I'm happy to pass your protocol around for some feedback, maybe I could find someone to run the experiment for you. Maybe I can even help with funding.
    - sheepmullet 9y ago
      > then where are all the experiments That is exactly what I am asking you. Where are all the small scale experiments that show diversity in race/gender in a team lead to better outcomes? There are a lot of small scale studies on effective teamwork. I went through them a long time ago when I did my business degree. I don't recall any of them suggesting diversity of race / gender were large contributors. Business schools have been running small scale studies on effective teamwork for decades.