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I think it's different this time around. Student loan debt and healthcare costs are out of control, but the practical difference in quality of life between the

I think it's different this time around. Student loan debt and healthcare costs are out of control, but the practical difference in quality of life between the rich and average American is smaller than ever. All the money in the world won't make Facebook better, or get you another season of Breaking Bad, or a better iPhone, or a better video game, or faster speed limits. People aren't going to raise pitchforks because someone has more zeros in their bank account.

FussyZeus 9y ago
It's definitely going to take longer (in fact I think we'd be there already if not for the quality of life) but that only does so much. People now have access to more information than ever and are realizing just how screwed they're getting every single day. I don't think it's unreasonable to say shouldn't we have it better too, not just the wealthy?
- moduspol 9y ago
  You do have it better, including relative to the wealthy. That was the point of my previous comment. The trend shows no signs of changing, so we can expect that to continue. I think it's worth re-examining if what you're describing is even a problem, and more importantly, if what you would suggest as a fix actually makes anything better other than a sense of "fairness."
dhimes 9y ago
They might if all those things go away for them but not for the other guy.
- moduspol 9y ago
  They absolutely will, but I don't see signs of that happening.
mywittyname 9y ago
Yeah, entertainment options are great if you're poor. This might keep them somewhat complacent. But how about the quality of housing and transportation? People absolutely will raise pitchforks when they no longer have housing or food. There are many Americans in this situation right now, but they suffer in near-silence. As their numbers swell, we will reach a point where they can no longer be ignored. The food itself is cheap, but obtaining the food isn't. Consider the poor rural people that need to drive 30+ miles to the grocery store.
- moduspol 9y ago
  Housing and transportation are both localized issues that are almost entirely concentrated in urban areas. They are problems, but are only indirectly related to wealth inequality anyway. Bigger problems are NIMBYs, excessive regulations protecting skylines / ocean views, etc. Transportation sucks for the wealthy, too. It is not the case that we have a growing epidemic of people without housing or food as a result of income inequality. We do have a growing number of people unable to find housing they can afford in the place they want to live, but that's not the same thing.
  - notfromhere 9y ago
    36% of households rent, and rent has been increasing in most places. What happens when there's a big job-killing recession?
    - moduspol 9y ago
      The same thing people with a mortgage payment do. And we do have public housing for those that can't.
      - vwcx 9y ago
        When was the last time you applied for public housing? It isn't just a "fallback" for society when the economic structure falters. Even people in public housing struggle to keep eligible by showing certain proofs of PT income.
maxxxxx 9y ago
You have to add to quality of life also factors like feeling secure about one's future or having opportunity. When you consider these then quality of life for poor people is not very good.
- moduspol 9y ago
  Sometimes. Those are very subjective factors that could involve a lot of personal decisions and responsibility. Even if they should be measured for quality of life, cultural factors are probably more relevant than how many dollars are in someone else's bank account.
munificent 9y ago
> but the practical difference in quality of life between the rich and average American is smaller than ever. The top 1% live a decade longer on average than the bottom 1%. The gap is increasing over time. [1] In 2015, 52,404 dies in the US from drug overdoses. 33,091 involved opioids. Opioid use is higher among lower-income people. [2] Suicide is also higher among lower income. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/ [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm655051e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm655051e1.htm
- moduspol 9y ago
  I wouldn't say life expectancy is the best statistic, though. Not all poor people necessarily make bad decisions, but people who make bad decisions over the course of their lives undoubtedly are more likely to be poor. When our top killers are direct results of obesity, it's hard to argue better wealth redistribution would result in fewer cheeseburgers eaten or cigarettes smoked. Your opiod and suicide statistics are similarly correlative with no indication of being causal. That's not to say it isn't a valid case against my statement you quoted, but I think it's missing the original context. I was responding to someone claiming we're likely to see an uprising if wealth inequality continues. That poorer people tend to make worse decisions that ultimately result in poorer outcomes does suggest a lower quality of life, but not that can be fairly blamed on richer people.
jpindar 9y ago
It's so strange how people think the main thing wrong with poverty is lack of material goods or entertainment.
- moduspol 9y ago
  Nobody said that.
  - jpindar 9y ago
    Maybe you didn't. But I see people assuming that all the time, talking about how the poor don't have it so bad now that they can afford phones etc.
Chiba-City 9y ago
You are sadly wrong and your examples show your parochialism. I don't enjoy moving picture fictions, recorded edited entertainment or packaged food. I went to Harvard and live in DC getting everything live and in person 24/7. I do not drive any cars and live on parks and zoos taxpayer dollars keep safe and manicure. I worked with Steve Crocker and Brad Cox, so I am no luddite. Last I knew Crocker was on the board of a local theater group and also prefers his life live in person. Authentic pleasures are almost impossible to get in suburban "modern" life where priests called "Therapists" charge hourly for confession and charlatans called "Teachers" do the same for scriptural studies. Our doctors are the lowest performing in the developed world. The peculiar imaginations of rusting commodities, factory fake foods and delusional fictions are meritorious goes with American accents and propaganda.

FussyZeus 9y ago

It's definitely going to take longer (in fact I think we'd be there already if not for the quality of life) but that only does so much. People now have access to more information than ever and are realizing just how screwed they're getting every single day. I don't think it's unreasonable to say shouldn't we have it better too, not just the wealthy?

moduspol 9y ago
You do have it better, including relative to the wealthy. That was the point of my previous comment. The trend shows no signs of changing, so we can expect that to continue. I think it's worth re-examining if what you're describing is even a problem, and more importantly, if what you would suggest as a fix actually makes anything better other than a sense of "fairness."

dhimes 9y ago

They might if all those things go away for them but not for the other guy.

moduspol 9y ago
They absolutely will, but I don't see signs of that happening.

mywittyname 9y ago

Yeah, entertainment options are great if you're poor. This might keep them somewhat complacent. But how about the quality of housing and transportation? People absolutely will raise pitchforks when they no longer have housing or food. There are many Americans in this situation right now, but they suffer in near-silence. As their numbers swell, we will reach a point where they can no longer be ignored. The food itself is cheap, but obtaining the food isn't. Consider the poor rural people that need to drive 30+ miles to the grocery store.

moduspol 9y ago
Housing and transportation are both localized issues that are almost entirely concentrated in urban areas. They are problems, but are only indirectly related to wealth inequality anyway. Bigger problems are NIMBYs, excessive regulations protecting skylines / ocean views, etc. Transportation sucks for the wealthy, too. It is not the case that we have a growing epidemic of people without housing or food as a result of income inequality. We do have a growing number of people unable to find housing they can afford in the place they want to live, but that's not the same thing.
- notfromhere 9y ago
  36% of households rent, and rent has been increasing in most places. What happens when there's a big job-killing recession?
  - moduspol 9y ago
    The same thing people with a mortgage payment do. And we do have public housing for those that can't.
    - vwcx 9y ago
      When was the last time you applied for public housing? It isn't just a "fallback" for society when the economic structure falters. Even people in public housing struggle to keep eligible by showing certain proofs of PT income.

maxxxxx 9y ago

You have to add to quality of life also factors like feeling secure about one's future or having opportunity. When you consider these then quality of life for poor people is not very good.

moduspol 9y ago
Sometimes. Those are very subjective factors that could involve a lot of personal decisions and responsibility. Even if they should be measured for quality of life, cultural factors are probably more relevant than how many dollars are in someone else's bank account.

munificent 9y ago

> but the practical difference in quality of life between the rich and average American is smaller than ever. The top 1% live a decade longer on average than the bottom 1%. The gap is increasing over time. [1] In 2015, 52,404 dies in the US from drug overdoses. 33,091 involved opioids. Opioid use is higher among lower-income people. [2] Suicide is also higher among lower income. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866586/ [2]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm655051e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm655051e1.htm

moduspol 9y ago
I wouldn't say life expectancy is the best statistic, though. Not all poor people necessarily make bad decisions, but people who make bad decisions over the course of their lives undoubtedly are more likely to be poor. When our top killers are direct results of obesity, it's hard to argue better wealth redistribution would result in fewer cheeseburgers eaten or cigarettes smoked. Your opiod and suicide statistics are similarly correlative with no indication of being causal. That's not to say it isn't a valid case against my statement you quoted, but I think it's missing the original context. I was responding to someone claiming we're likely to see an uprising if wealth inequality continues. That poorer people tend to make worse decisions that ultimately result in poorer outcomes does suggest a lower quality of life, but not that can be fairly blamed on richer people.

jpindar 9y ago

It's so strange how people think the main thing wrong with poverty is lack of material goods or entertainment.

moduspol 9y ago
Nobody said that.
- jpindar 9y ago
  Maybe you didn't. But I see people assuming that all the time, talking about how the poor don't have it so bad now that they can afford phones etc.

Chiba-City 9y ago

You are sadly wrong and your examples show your parochialism. I don't enjoy moving picture fictions, recorded edited entertainment or packaged food. I went to Harvard and live in DC getting everything live and in person 24/7. I do not drive any cars and live on parks and zoos taxpayer dollars keep safe and manicure. I worked with Steve Crocker and Brad Cox, so I am no luddite. Last I knew Crocker was on the board of a local theater group and also prefers his life live in person. Authentic pleasures are almost impossible to get in suburban "modern" life where priests called "Therapists" charge hourly for confession and charlatans called "Teachers" do the same for scriptural studies. Our doctors are the lowest performing in the developed world. The peculiar imaginations of rusting commodities, factory fake foods and delusional fictions are meritorious goes with American accents and propaganda.