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That prompts two questions for me if you don't mind sharing. (a) How do you define and assess "culture fit", and why? (b) How do you know the things you're op

That prompts two questions for me if you don't mind sharing. (a) How do you define and assess "culture fit", and why? (b) How do you know the things you're optimising for are actually good proxies for productivity? Appreciate these aren't questions with simple answers (or maybe even answers at all), but hiring/assessment process is my current field and I'm always curious where peoples thinking is at.

Spooky23 9y ago
That’s a fancy way of saying “we hire people we like”. It’s an approach that isn’t perfect but is good enough for many roles. We pick spouses based on that approach and it works out pretty well for most people.
- mlashcorp 9y ago
  You are correct, "culture fit" is not a good descriptor of what I meant. We hire people we believe we will be able to work with. It's not a popularity contest, we evaluate problem solving, analytical thinking and communication skills, such as the ability to explain complex topics in easy terms. I'll give you an example, usually we are interviewing people straight out of the university, but this can be applied to any candidate. I'll start by asking the candidate to talk about his master's project. As he talks about it, I'll guide the conversation towards these topics : -What was the problem -How was it defined? -How did you tackle it? -Explain your solution -support your decisions -Was there a cost/benefit analysis? -How was the problem decomposed? This will give me an initial picture of the candidate's ability to address a problem, and is far more important to me than wether he knows "the number after F in hexadecimal" or some other nonsense.
  - Peroni 9y ago
    This isn't screening for 'culture fit' though and I'd sincerely recommend avoiding referring to it as that. You're screening for strong communication skills and that's absolutely fine (and highly recommended). Interviewing for culture fit (as you've seen in the responses to your comment) has an extremely negative stigma attached to it for good reason.
    - philipps 9y ago
      I strongly agree with this. “Culture fit” is one of those concepts that often disadvantages “others”. This is something we may not be able to avoid without putting in place safeguards (concert musicians were predominantly male until blind auditions were used - and it turned out that female musicians play just as well or better). As I mention above this is often not a result of bad intentions, but of implicit biases that have an effect on our judgements even if we are fully aware of them and explicitly try to avoid them. See https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/aboutus.html https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/aboutus.html
  - lucozade 9y ago
    On reading this post, it may well be that culture fit is quite a good description. At least from the POV that you're selecting from a small cadre of (almost exclusively) male masters grads.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Which is a polite way of saying “we hire people like us”
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  About half of all marriages fail. All the intimate relationships people have prior to marriage also don't last. So people we like has a fairly high failure rate for intimate relationships. Having said that, it doesn't necessarily mean it was all a complete waste. Most people don't stay in their first job, so there's that.
  - ndh2 9y ago
    "People we like" is not how 100% of all people pick their spouse.
  - late2part 9y ago
    I suggest that the average marriage lasts longer than most jobs. Average Job: 4.6 Years - https://www.thebalance.com/how-long-should-an-employee-stay-at-a-job-2059796 https://www.thebalance.com/how-long-should-an-employee-stay-... Average Marriage: 8 Years - https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/3...
    - jogjayr 9y ago
      Given how much harder it is to leave a marriage than it is to leave a job, I'd think the gap between those two should be much larger.
      - Spooky23 9y ago
        The two are pretty tightly linked. If you have an underemployed or unemployed couple without a support network, you pretty much have to get divorced to get social services.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    What's your definition of success? I don't walk into any job interview situation expecting 30 years of bliss -- that's generally not a reality. If you stick around for 3 years that's probably a decent employment relationship depending on industry. Many marriages, including those that ultimately fail, work pretty well for a long time. I'm not that old, and I've been married for 13 years. Is that a win? Also, the average marriage is around 8 years, but the median is close to 40 iirc. People who get divorced trend to have issues like being young, poor, previously divorced, criminal issues or substance abuse problems. Divorce rates for couples at least 25 without those risk factors are dramatically lower -- implying that people with fewer signs of bad judgement display better judgement in picking a spouse and maintaining a relationship.
- pmorici 9y ago
  Have you looked at the divorce rate?

Spooky23 9y ago

That’s a fancy way of saying “we hire people we like”. It’s an approach that isn’t perfect but is good enough for many roles. We pick spouses based on that approach and it works out pretty well for most people.

mlashcorp 9y ago
You are correct, "culture fit" is not a good descriptor of what I meant. We hire people we believe we will be able to work with. It's not a popularity contest, we evaluate problem solving, analytical thinking and communication skills, such as the ability to explain complex topics in easy terms. I'll give you an example, usually we are interviewing people straight out of the university, but this can be applied to any candidate. I'll start by asking the candidate to talk about his master's project. As he talks about it, I'll guide the conversation towards these topics : -What was the problem -How was it defined? -How did you tackle it? -Explain your solution -support your decisions -Was there a cost/benefit analysis? -How was the problem decomposed? This will give me an initial picture of the candidate's ability to address a problem, and is far more important to me than wether he knows "the number after F in hexadecimal" or some other nonsense.
- Peroni 9y ago
  This isn't screening for 'culture fit' though and I'd sincerely recommend avoiding referring to it as that. You're screening for strong communication skills and that's absolutely fine (and highly recommended). Interviewing for culture fit (as you've seen in the responses to your comment) has an extremely negative stigma attached to it for good reason.
  - philipps 9y ago
    I strongly agree with this. “Culture fit” is one of those concepts that often disadvantages “others”. This is something we may not be able to avoid without putting in place safeguards (concert musicians were predominantly male until blind auditions were used - and it turned out that female musicians play just as well or better). As I mention above this is often not a result of bad intentions, but of implicit biases that have an effect on our judgements even if we are fully aware of them and explicitly try to avoid them. See https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/aboutus.html https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/aboutus.html
- lucozade 9y ago
  On reading this post, it may well be that culture fit is quite a good description. At least from the POV that you're selecting from a small cadre of (almost exclusively) male masters grads.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Which is a polite way of saying “we hire people like us”
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
About half of all marriages fail. All the intimate relationships people have prior to marriage also don't last. So people we like has a fairly high failure rate for intimate relationships. Having said that, it doesn't necessarily mean it was all a complete waste. Most people don't stay in their first job, so there's that.
- ndh2 9y ago
  "People we like" is not how 100% of all people pick their spouse.
- late2part 9y ago
  I suggest that the average marriage lasts longer than most jobs. Average Job: 4.6 Years - https://www.thebalance.com/how-long-should-an-employee-stay-at-a-job-2059796 https://www.thebalance.com/how-long-should-an-employee-stay-... Average Marriage: 8 Years - https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/3...
  - jogjayr 9y ago
    Given how much harder it is to leave a marriage than it is to leave a job, I'd think the gap between those two should be much larger.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      The two are pretty tightly linked. If you have an underemployed or unemployed couple without a support network, you pretty much have to get divorced to get social services.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  What's your definition of success? I don't walk into any job interview situation expecting 30 years of bliss -- that's generally not a reality. If you stick around for 3 years that's probably a decent employment relationship depending on industry. Many marriages, including those that ultimately fail, work pretty well for a long time. I'm not that old, and I've been married for 13 years. Is that a win? Also, the average marriage is around 8 years, but the median is close to 40 iirc. People who get divorced trend to have issues like being young, poor, previously divorced, criminal issues or substance abuse problems. Divorce rates for couples at least 25 without those risk factors are dramatically lower -- implying that people with fewer signs of bad judgement display better judgement in picking a spouse and maintaining a relationship.
pmorici 9y ago
Have you looked at the divorce rate?