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Sadly, this is a result of deeply-rooted parts of Japanese culture. In Japan, you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation. Foreigners might,
by donw 9y ago
Sadly, this is a result of deeply-rooted parts of Japanese culture.
In Japan, you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation. Foreigners might, but native Japanese largely don't.
To establish some sort of repertoire, you need to share some sort of acceptable social context with that person: went to school together, played on a sports team together, work together, etc.
And, given that Japanese companies commonly have working hours that would be classified somewhere between "insane" and "criminally negligent", you don't really have time to socialize with anybody outside of your office.
This all goes triple for Tokyo, which has a very cold and sterile personality.
Expats tend to glop together into a tight group -- the "foreigner" community in Tokyo is like a small town in and of itself -- but for the natives, the end result is that there are a lot of very lonely people here.
- agibsonccc 9y agoI've lived in tokyo for ~1 year now and have been coming here since early 2015, I have to say the tech community isn't that bad. Granted, one person's experience/ancecdata etc, but I've found it easier to associate with locals. Usually going to meetups and the like can help quite a bit. There's quite a bit of social context that tends to stem from that. Like you said, breaking the ice helps a lot. I can imagine it's worse in other industries but tech has by far been the most forgiving.
- sdrothrock 9y ago> Usually going to meetups and the like can help quite a bit. Selection bias -- you meet people who want to go to meetups. Usually those kinds of meetups are quite small, too; I don't know many Japanese people who'd actually like to go to something like that. One weird thing is that I have many online Japanese friends who have absolutely ZERO interest in meeting in real life; the gap between virtual and real can be surprisingly strong here.
- agibsonccc 9y agoYep, covered that right in my reply. I'm aware I have anecdata, not saying otherwise. I was actually saying tech is a nice bubble, not denying it exists. I know enough that go that I've formed a nice community. Whether meeting IRL or not, it probably depends on the "kind" of friend you're considered. Japanese folks tend to put their friends in groups.
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- ekianjo 9y ago> you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation I find this is not really true. This depends a LOT on the context in Japan. If you are in the train or in the street, yeah, it's not the right place to do that. But there are plenty of other places where such interactions happen naturally. Go in a bar? People will start talking to you. Go have dinner in a small izakaya? There's a good chance people will talk to you. Visit a tourist spot? There's a good probability something like that will happen as well. And not just with foreigners, this happens with locals as well. So, it's far from being black or white. Just like a lot of statements I hear the whole time about Japan.
- jupiter90000 9y agoI noticed when visiting that in scenarios like you mentioned strangers would have no problem striking up a conversation or some other interaction. Nice scenario where I noticed this was when on hiking trails.
- taneq 9y agoIs this in the context of traveling there as a foreigner? I found that quite a few Japanese people were willing to come up and start a conversation with me, but now that I think of it, I didn't see much casual conversation between locals.
- ekianjo 9y ago> Is this in the context of traveling there as a foreigner I specifically said that no, it's not just me. I have seen and heard locals talking about this happening to them a lot. I'd say this happens even less likely as a foreigner because people will just strike a short conversation with you if they can barely speak English and that will stop there. Between locals it can go on for much longer.
- sho 9y ago> you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation I'd like to know what world you live in where this is any kind of option. Maybe "my introvert is showing" but I don't even consider doing this. Is this abnormal?
- ggg9990 9y agoThis is very normal in most parts of the United States but the South in particular.
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- ido 9y agoNormal in most English speaking countries really, at least in Canada and England from my personal experience. Very much not the case in the German speaking countries (where i have lived since early 2005). For a time this was one of my top reasons to want to immigrate to Canada (I was already working remotely for a Canadian startup at the time).
- kleiba 9y agoThat probably depends greatly on where in Germany you live. Rural areas are probably more open to such interactions than big cities.
- ido 9y agoI lived in Vienna for almost 8 years and Berlin for 4. In the latter people were much more talkative (but still less so than in some other contries).
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoNot so much in crowded cities, such as NY, SF, etc.
- cattlefarmer 9y agoI think that's only if you're in Tokyo. It's often said [0] that people living in Kanto/Tokyo are cold. I've been here a decade now, mostly out in halfway rural/urban areas and it's not uncommon to randomly strike up a conversion with a stranger. Probably not as common as in the US/Aus, but definitely not a rare event. [0] https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=関東人が冷たい&aqs=chrome..69i57.285j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=関東人が冷たい&aqs=chrome..69i57....
- dogruck 9y agoI think it is offensive to classify a cultural aspect of one of the world’s most successful populations as “insane” or “criminal.” Sure, the prototypical Japanese work practices might not line up with your culture. I don’t think it gives justification to label them as “insane.”
- klibertp 9y agoThese work practices, presumably, correlate with higher percentage of depression, suicide and death by overwork. I don't think calling them insane is that big of a strech, even if they are economically viable.
- dogruck 9y agoI think there is a good chance that you’re making assumptions about that correlation. You’re probably also overlooking all of the Japanese people who derive tremendous existential justification via devotion to work. By counter-point, depression, drug use, and suicide is a serious issue in Hawaii. People are living in “paradise,” yet there is a crisis.
- whytaka 9y agoI think it is apt to call it insane. Consider this: it's not uncommon to see people 'working' nearly twice the hours of the Western average. Yet their GDP per capita is comparable if not equivalent to the Western average. Since most other economic measures (that is, their standard of living) match up with the West, you're forced to ask yourself, 'Are Japanese people half as productive?' Is that why they have to work twice as much? I'll bet against it. It's because they have an insane work culture.
- dogruck 9y agoI think “insane” is unnecessarily caustic. Instead, it’s better to argue (as you are doing) that it’s “inefficient” or perhaps “unhealthy.” Also, it’s far too easy to cast stones in glass houses. I have a close friend who is ultra-low-budget traveling around the world who could justifiably call you and me “insane” for pushing forward in our careers (whatever they are).
- jaredklewis 9y ago> In Japan, you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation. Foreigners might, but native Japanese largely don't. First of all, I've seen Japanese (who are strangers) strike up conversations on occasion in Tokyo: at the coin laundry, at the bakery, on elevators, and so on. It's not like a social taboo or something. But yes, in general, people keep to themselves. That being said, in my experience, people in New York and Los Angeles also keep to themselves. My instinct is that the apparently introverted nature of people in Tokyo has nothing to do with Japanese culture and everything to do with the fact that it is a big city in a developed country. Perhaps someone from London can bring in another data point? If my experiences in rural Japan are at all normal, Japanese in rural Japan are at least as talkative as those in the Southern US (where I'm from).
- ljf 9y agoI lived in London nearly 20 years and yes it's like everywhere. In Piccadilly Circus or somewhere else busy, of course the shop keepers will be tense and the 'locals' in the pubs won't be looking for a chat (though that is a lie I've had random chats with both on many occasions), but in my own part of east London I'd meet loads of randoms in the park or the pub or the local shops or cafes, esp since having a child. That said I've now moved to a very small town and it is crazy friendly, people will go out of their way to chat to you and be nice (but then again there are plenty of grumpy shop keepers and locals) So I guess it is the same everywhere - your own little view will be coloured by your own expectations and by how much you are genuinely open to talking to people.
- tehwalrus 9y agoLived in London for six years, only spoke to my partner, people at work/uni and my landlord (who is also an uncle-in-law, if that's a thing). Two weeks before we left we got a dog. We met so many people from the area and the dog was an excuse to start a conversation. Made us feel like we'd been missing out all that time!
- jpindar 9y agoHmm, I wonder how walking a robot dog would go. They wouldn't need walking for the same reasons a bio dog does, of course, but they could be made to insist on going outside. Maybe they would want to hunt Pokemon!
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- nihonde 9y agoAs a resident of Japan, this strikes me as complete nonsense. Life in Japan is extremely social. People strike up friendships all the time. Your pity is misplaced. Go to any izakaya and you’ll likely walk out with a few new friends, even if you’re an introvert.
- snowryd88 9y agoI guess you're not native to Japanese
- nihonde 9y agoWhat's your point? I live in a world full of people who are native to Japan. I'm not in some sort of expat bubble. I can go weeks without seeing any foreigners here. It's not difficult for me to know the perspective of people who grew up here.
- agumonkey 9y agoI see a lot of videos of young japanese in groups in streets, they seem friendly and open. Does it disappear when adult life kicks in ?
- JohnBooty 9y agoIn Japan, you don't just walk up to people and strike up a conversation. Foreigners might, but native Japanese largely don't. To establish some sort of repertoire, you need to share some sort of acceptable social context with that person: went to school together, played on a sports team together, work together, etc. I'm from the Northeast U.S. (though I've visited friends in a decent number of cities in this country) and this sounds 100% like every place I've ever lived in or visited. Are there really places in the world where total strangers strike up conversations and form friendships with people on the street, on the bus, etc? I'm 41 and I don't think I've never experienced that and I'm a pretty social guy! Aside from random "how about this weather?" chit-chat, I don't think I've ever befriended somebody outside of an existing social context like school, clubs, workplaces, online communities, fellow pet owners, neighbors, etc. Closest counter-example I can think of is my mom, who become good friends with a cashier at the supermarket she shopped at twice a week.
- golergka 9y ago> Are there really places in the world where total strangers strike up conversations and form friendships with people on the street, on the bus, etc? Israel, 100%. If you're new in the country, you'll end up getting a lot of random people that you literally meet on the street or in public transportation, helping you with a lot of stuff in your life.
- Inthenameofmine 9y agoDefinitely in Southern Europe. I met some of my best friends in random encounters.
- zimpenfish 9y ago> Are there really places in the world where total strangers strike up conversations and form friendships with people on the street, on the bus, etc? I know several people who have formed "commuting friendships" when they've been on the same train day in, day out which then turned into "real friendships" distinct from the commute. (Personally I would never strike up a conversation but crippling social anxiety is a bugger like that.)
- 9y ago