8 ms·

Firebase Predictions Beta

138 points by kawera 9y ago

lettergram 9y ago
I think this is interesting, but I'm having trouble seeing how it'll be used. Personally, when I want to do things like this - I roll my own custom solutions because I want more control. Given that, I guess I'll be giving it a shot (although I think Firebase in general is super over priced)
- baronseng 9y ago
  So what are the better priced alternatives?
  - codingninja 9y ago
    Have you heard of RetroAnalytics? It's a predictive analytics platform that offers similar features but without the need to be locked into Firebase. https://retroanalytics.io https://retroanalytics.io Disclaimer - I'm the founder :)
    - joshuahutt 9y ago
      What's the pricing model?
      - codingninja 9y ago
        We charge a monthly fee which is based on the sessions you are getting and then we have a few different tiers. We should have our pricing up on the site in the next few days and we have a 30 day free trial to make sure you are happy with the product, feel free to reach out to me - david at retroanalytics.io.
  - thinkloop 9y ago
    I was curious about the answer myself, and bumped into kinto: http://kinto.readthedocs.io/en/latest/overview.html http://kinto.readthedocs.io/en/latest/overview.html - Build collaborative applications with real time updates and fine-grained permissions. - Our JavaScript client for browsers leverages IndexedDB to work completely offline and synchronise data when online. - It’s even possible for data to be encrypted on the client to keep user data safe on the server. - Permissions can be set on the stored objects, making it possible to share data between users. - Kinto is an HTTP API in front of a database. Interactions with the server are simple HTTP requests rather than complex SQL or map-reduce queries. It is meant to be minimalist and simple. This would be a self-hosted solution. They have a pre-built docker image to spin it up. Previous HN links: - 641 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10994736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10994736 - 687 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10733164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10733164
    - baronseng 9y ago
      I've look at that as well, but "scaling production" in 2017 roadmap worries me. https://github.com/Kinto/kinto/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/Kinto/kinto/wiki/Roadmap
    - fulafel 9y ago
      Looks like Kinto uses PostgreSQL as the backend (http://docs.kinto-storage.org/en/stable/configuration/production.html http://docs.kinto-storage.org/en/stable/configuration/produc...). This was a little buried in the web docs and website.
  - andrewxhill 9y ago
    For an alternative to the predictive portions just launched, check out https://blog.set.gl/ https://blog.set.gl/ currently in a free beta.
- phpencil 9y ago
  Use cases vary with your app need, but the Halfbrick (fruit ninja etc) case study might help: https://firebase.google.com/downloads/Halfbrick_Case_Study.pdf https://firebase.google.com/downloads/Halfbrick_Case_Study.p... - we worked with them during the alpha testing and I think their approach will work for a lot of apps.
- alvis 9y ago
  It really depends on the application. Certainly, everyone love control, but there is a trade off between control and cost. Firebase prediction is simply a simple implementation for some simple use cases, which are plenty.
- _justinfunk 9y ago
  For what sort of applications is it super over-priced? I'm using the realtime database to build out an app, and if I start scaling my current (beta) usage by 1000x, I'm still only getting monthly bills of $100 or so. Fear based question: are there applications (hopefully mine) that would scale in an economic way? And there are other use-cases that wouldn't scale?
kylehotchkiss 9y ago
Will this work in browsers too? It would be very cool if it did
- codingninja 9y ago
  Take a look at https://RetroAnalytics.io https://RetroAnalytics.io - It's a predictive web analytics platform. Similar features to Firebase Prediction though built for the web and mobile and you aren't locked into Firebase. Disclaimer - I'm the founder :) Would love your feedback !
- futhey 9y ago
  Doesn't look like it. It looks like it extends Firebase analytics (Mobile only) from my dashboard.
- phpencil 9y ago
  Firebaser here, not right now, it uses Google Analytics for Firebase data, which is currently only Android and iOS
kawera 9y ago
Short promo video on their youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrvrVEHJz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrvrVEHJz4
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mkj 9y ago
Is this solely using in-app analytics as input for the learning, or other knowledge of users from elsewhere in google?
- phpencil 9y ago
  Right now just analytics, but we are considering other inputs too, as we know many devs have data in other sources which can be used to bolster prediction quality.
jannes 9y ago
So in how many years is Google going to shut down Firebase? It was an acquisition and they don't tend to keep those running for long.
- Kamshak 9y ago
  They have since acquired more companies to complement the offer and released a new product called Cloud Firestore very recently. They are also doing conferences promoting it in lots of places. Doubt it's going away very soon.
- phpencil 9y ago
  Firebaser here! We've been investing pretty heavily in the platform so I think we will be around for a while. Worth noting that YouTube, Double click and Android were all Google acquisitions too!
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Those all provide space for ads. Does Firebase have a roadmap for providing advertising space?
    - greydata 9y ago
      AdMob: https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/admob-firebase https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/admob-firebase Also Firebase has a free tier but it does cost money https://firebase.google.com/pricing/ https://firebase.google.com/pricing/
- mg74 9y ago
  This knee-jerk-ism is tiresome. There are plenty of products that Google has retired, and plenty of products that Google has continued to invest in. Just like any other big corporation. (acquisition still running, top of my head: Google Docs, Android, YouTube, DoubleClick)
  - hk__2 9y ago
mcemilg 9y ago
Machine learning problems are unique for each case. How can they apply them all. If it works it will be revolutionary but I guess it won't...
- phpencil 9y ago
  Firebaser here! We don't generally target all use cases, just event prediction from a stream of anslytics events, which is a lot more constrained. Give it a try, it's pretty robust!
yAnonymous 9y ago
To me it seems like Firebase essentially supports the cancer of the (app/software) industry: Creating/buying an app, making it popular and drawing every last penny out of it while pissing off the core users who helped to make it popular and then letting it die. Rinse and repeat. It helps you piss off the core/current users a little less to draw out the process as much as possible and make more profits, but the result is the same. Using optimization strategies and software like Firebase disconnects you from the user base as you turn your users into the product. Of course this would come from Google who are experts at it. They get away with it though, because their software is great and there are few alternatives, but that's not the case in the app market. /rant
- bovermyer 9y ago
  If you're pissed at predictive modeling being used for apps, I assume you're incensed at predictive modeling being used in general marketing, where it's been in use for many decades?
- speeq 9y ago
  I think that's a bit harsh. What if an app needs that revenue to stay alive due to back-end costs for example?
mathgeek 9y ago
> reward users who are likely to make in-app purchases It's nothing new, but I still find it amusing how much the IAP model has borrowed from the marketing handbook of narcotics dealers.
awjr 9y ago
I've played with Firebase but have been exploring GraphQL services recently. Initially http://www.graph.cool/ http://www.graph.cool/ and https://scaphold.io/ https://scaphold.io/ Graph.cool just released their development framework so I may investigate. I realise Firebase and GraphQL are very different beasts but I think they serve the same market. It would be good to see Firebase at some point offer a GraphQL interface but the data structures are very different.
- deathtrader666 9y ago
  The homepage at http://www.graph.cool/ http://www.graph.cool/ loads so fast!
- alexpriceco 9y ago
  Do _not_ use Scaphold. They’ve gone completely dark, and haven’t responded to support requests in over a month. Graph.cool is rad. We used it while migrating to Google Cloud, just so we could be off of Scaphold.
adam12 9y ago
What kind of revenue should you be earning from a popular app on Firebase to justify the cost of using Firebase (for an indie developer). It looks great, but I'm afraid I won't be able to afford it. I'm currently researching open source solutions such as Parse.
- Mithorium 9y ago
  I haven't used it much but from the pricing page it seems affordable enough. There is also a calculator at the bottom for big apps where you can estimate how much it will cost for the plan at scale https://firebase.google.com/pricing/ https://firebase.google.com/pricing/
- andrewxhill 9y ago
  Give Set http://set.gl http://set.gl a look, we are currently in beta. I'd love to hear more about what you are trying to do to see if we can help.
misterbowfinger 9y ago
> Predictions are available for iOS and Android apps that include the Analytics SDK Any plans to have this work for web apps?
- phpencil 9y ago
  Firebaser here! Its dependent on Google Analytics for Firebase one web - so, we need to get that in first!
jayd16 9y ago
So how is this particular feature priced? Is it set up so the analytics consumes cloud function CPU?
- phpencil 9y ago
  Its free!
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
adam_gyroscope 9y ago
Great to see Google entering this space! My company, Gyroscope Software (getgyroscope.com) does prediction, cohorting and timing of callbacks into mobile games and apps, with plugins for iOS and Unity. We've built a real-time prediction engine to make this happen; we also use some neat tech to get us enough data from the clients to do fast machine learning without the developer having to do any instrumentation, data collection, or other data wrangling - we do this automatically. Happy to answer any questions anyone has.

138 points by kawera 9y ago

I think this is interesting, but I'm having trouble seeing how it'll be used. Personally, when I want to do things like this - I roll my own custom solutions because I want more control. Given that, I guess I'll be giving it a shot (although I think Firebase in general is super over priced)

baronseng 9y ago
So what are the better priced alternatives?
- codingninja 9y ago
  Have you heard of RetroAnalytics? It's a predictive analytics platform that offers similar features but without the need to be locked into Firebase. https://retroanalytics.io https://retroanalytics.io Disclaimer - I'm the founder :)
  - joshuahutt 9y ago
    What's the pricing model?
    - codingninja 9y ago
      We charge a monthly fee which is based on the sessions you are getting and then we have a few different tiers. We should have our pricing up on the site in the next few days and we have a 30 day free trial to make sure you are happy with the product, feel free to reach out to me - david at retroanalytics.io.
- thinkloop 9y ago
  I was curious about the answer myself, and bumped into kinto: http://kinto.readthedocs.io/en/latest/overview.html http://kinto.readthedocs.io/en/latest/overview.html - Build collaborative applications with real time updates and fine-grained permissions. - Our JavaScript client for browsers leverages IndexedDB to work completely offline and synchronise data when online. - It’s even possible for data to be encrypted on the client to keep user data safe on the server. - Permissions can be set on the stored objects, making it possible to share data between users. - Kinto is an HTTP API in front of a database. Interactions with the server are simple HTTP requests rather than complex SQL or map-reduce queries. It is meant to be minimalist and simple. This would be a self-hosted solution. They have a pre-built docker image to spin it up. Previous HN links: - 641 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10994736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10994736 - 687 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10733164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10733164
  - baronseng 9y ago
    I've look at that as well, but "scaling production" in 2017 roadmap worries me. https://github.com/Kinto/kinto/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/Kinto/kinto/wiki/Roadmap
  - fulafel 9y ago
    Looks like Kinto uses PostgreSQL as the backend (http://docs.kinto-storage.org/en/stable/configuration/production.html http://docs.kinto-storage.org/en/stable/configuration/produc...). This was a little buried in the web docs and website.
- andrewxhill 9y ago
  For an alternative to the predictive portions just launched, check out https://blog.set.gl/ https://blog.set.gl/ currently in a free beta.
phpencil 9y ago
Use cases vary with your app need, but the Halfbrick (fruit ninja etc) case study might help: https://firebase.google.com/downloads/Halfbrick_Case_Study.pdf https://firebase.google.com/downloads/Halfbrick_Case_Study.p... - we worked with them during the alpha testing and I think their approach will work for a lot of apps.
alvis 9y ago
It really depends on the application. Certainly, everyone love control, but there is a trade off between control and cost. Firebase prediction is simply a simple implementation for some simple use cases, which are plenty.
_justinfunk 9y ago
For what sort of applications is it super over-priced? I'm using the realtime database to build out an app, and if I start scaling my current (beta) usage by 1000x, I'm still only getting monthly bills of $100 or so. Fear based question: are there applications (hopefully mine) that would scale in an economic way? And there are other use-cases that wouldn't scale?

kylehotchkiss 9y ago

Will this work in browsers too? It would be very cool if it did

codingninja 9y ago
Take a look at https://RetroAnalytics.io https://RetroAnalytics.io - It's a predictive web analytics platform. Similar features to Firebase Prediction though built for the web and mobile and you aren't locked into Firebase. Disclaimer - I'm the founder :) Would love your feedback !
futhey 9y ago
Doesn't look like it. It looks like it extends Firebase analytics (Mobile only) from my dashboard.
phpencil 9y ago
Firebaser here, not right now, it uses Google Analytics for Firebase data, which is currently only Android and iOS

kawera 9y ago

Short promo video on their youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrvrVEHJz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrvrVEHJz4

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

mkj 9y ago

Is this solely using in-app analytics as input for the learning, or other knowledge of users from elsewhere in google?

phpencil 9y ago
Right now just analytics, but we are considering other inputs too, as we know many devs have data in other sources which can be used to bolster prediction quality.

jannes 9y ago

So in how many years is Google going to shut down Firebase? It was an acquisition and they don't tend to keep those running for long.

Kamshak 9y ago
They have since acquired more companies to complement the offer and released a new product called Cloud Firestore very recently. They are also doing conferences promoting it in lots of places. Doubt it's going away very soon.
phpencil 9y ago
Firebaser here! We've been investing pretty heavily in the platform so I think we will be around for a while. Worth noting that YouTube, Double click and Android were all Google acquisitions too!
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Those all provide space for ads. Does Firebase have a roadmap for providing advertising space?
  - greydata 9y ago
    AdMob: https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/admob-firebase https://firebase.google.com/docs/admob/admob-firebase Also Firebase has a free tier but it does cost money https://firebase.google.com/pricing/ https://firebase.google.com/pricing/
mg74 9y ago
This knee-jerk-ism is tiresome. There are plenty of products that Google has retired, and plenty of products that Google has continued to invest in. Just like any other big corporation. (acquisition still running, top of my head: Google Docs, Android, YouTube, DoubleClick)
- hk__2 9y ago

mcemilg 9y ago

Machine learning problems are unique for each case. How can they apply them all. If it works it will be revolutionary but I guess it won't...

phpencil 9y ago
Firebaser here! We don't generally target all use cases, just event prediction from a stream of anslytics events, which is a lot more constrained. Give it a try, it's pretty robust!

yAnonymous 9y ago

To me it seems like Firebase essentially supports the cancer of the (app/software) industry: Creating/buying an app, making it popular and drawing every last penny out of it while pissing off the core users who helped to make it popular and then letting it die. Rinse and repeat. It helps you piss off the core/current users a little less to draw out the process as much as possible and make more profits, but the result is the same. Using optimization strategies and software like Firebase disconnects you from the user base as you turn your users into the product. Of course this would come from Google who are experts at it. They get away with it though, because their software is great and there are few alternatives, but that's not the case in the app market. /rant

bovermyer 9y ago
If you're pissed at predictive modeling being used for apps, I assume you're incensed at predictive modeling being used in general marketing, where it's been in use for many decades?
speeq 9y ago
I think that's a bit harsh. What if an app needs that revenue to stay alive due to back-end costs for example?

mathgeek 9y ago

> reward users who are likely to make in-app purchases It's nothing new, but I still find it amusing how much the IAP model has borrowed from the marketing handbook of narcotics dealers.

awjr 9y ago

I've played with Firebase but have been exploring GraphQL services recently. Initially http://www.graph.cool/ http://www.graph.cool/ and https://scaphold.io/ https://scaphold.io/ Graph.cool just released their development framework so I may investigate. I realise Firebase and GraphQL are very different beasts but I think they serve the same market. It would be good to see Firebase at some point offer a GraphQL interface but the data structures are very different.

deathtrader666 9y ago
The homepage at http://www.graph.cool/ http://www.graph.cool/ loads so fast!
alexpriceco 9y ago
Do _not_ use Scaphold. They’ve gone completely dark, and haven’t responded to support requests in over a month. Graph.cool is rad. We used it while migrating to Google Cloud, just so we could be off of Scaphold.

adam12 9y ago

What kind of revenue should you be earning from a popular app on Firebase to justify the cost of using Firebase (for an indie developer). It looks great, but I'm afraid I won't be able to afford it. I'm currently researching open source solutions such as Parse.

Mithorium 9y ago
I haven't used it much but from the pricing page it seems affordable enough. There is also a calculator at the bottom for big apps where you can estimate how much it will cost for the plan at scale https://firebase.google.com/pricing/ https://firebase.google.com/pricing/
andrewxhill 9y ago
Give Set http://set.gl http://set.gl a look, we are currently in beta. I'd love to hear more about what you are trying to do to see if we can help.

misterbowfinger 9y ago

> Predictions are available for iOS and Android apps that include the Analytics SDK Any plans to have this work for web apps?

phpencil 9y ago
Firebaser here! Its dependent on Google Analytics for Firebase one web - so, we need to get that in first!

jayd16 9y ago

So how is this particular feature priced? Is it set up so the analytics consumes cloud function CPU?

phpencil 9y ago
Its free!

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

adam_gyroscope 9y ago

Great to see Google entering this space! My company, Gyroscope Software (getgyroscope.com) does prediction, cohorting and timing of callbacks into mobile games and apps, with plugins for iOS and Unity. We've built a real-time prediction engine to make this happen; we also use some neat tech to get us enough data from the clients to do fast machine learning without the developer having to do any instrumentation, data collection, or other data wrangling - we do this automatically. Happy to answer any questions anyone has.