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I used Mailchimp to collect email addresses for an beta user waitlist in 2015. I eventually used a work-around to disable double opt-in because so many users ha

I used Mailchimp to collect email addresses for an beta user waitlist in 2015. I eventually used a work-around to disable double opt-in because so many users had signed up, never clicked the confirmation email, and were then confused why they never received access to our product when others had. As a user I also prefer single opt-in. If I sign up for something, I want to be signed up. Clicking confirmation links is an annoying extra step.

caf 9y ago
Here's the thing, though. As a user, if I start getting your mailing list emails because someone else decided to sign me up and there was no confirmation, I'm going to mark it as spam.
- Gustomaximus 9y ago
  That should be a minimal number of cases, reduced further by having a big clear one click unsubscribe option. It always amazes me the business that make unsubscribing difficult. That is the real way to get placed in spam.
  - caf 9y ago
    Does anyone trust the unsubscribe link in apparent spam, though?
    - JohnTHaller 9y ago
      Many less technical folks do. If I never signed up, I'm absolutely not clicking an unsubscribe link.
    - hashmal 9y ago
      I'm pretty sure clicking the unsubscribe button says "hey, this email address you obtained is real and active!"
      - rconti 9y ago
        That feels very "20 years ago" to me. They've got plenty of other ways. Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit careful with them but because I'm used to being signed up to lists by a handful of stupid people who don't know their email address, I can basically anticipate what regions of the world my spamlists will come from, and I generally have a good feel for what's legit or what's not. I use the unsubscribe link often for these things.
  - Pharaoh2 9y ago
    Too late, enough businesses have screwed up the unsubscribe system that now I mark every mail as spam and let the spam filters take care of it. I don't care if the unsubscribe links works or not, I already have a faster path.
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    I don't care how clear the unsubscribe option is, if I didn't specifically subscribe, it gets marked as spam and reported.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    I'm not clicking an unsubscribe button on something I didn't subscribe to. I have no way of knowing if it will unsubscribe me or if it will tell the sender "Hey guys! This is a real email address! Send him more spam!"
    - inetknght 9y ago
      ...or worse: send you to an infected URL and pwn you
    - akcreek 9y ago
      Clicking unsubscribe isn't the only way to know if the email is good. If your email client loads images then it will be known if you opened the email which will also give your IP, geolocation, device type, client name, user agent, etc. Depending on your email provider if you mark it as spam that could also be known by the sender if your provider supports the complaint feedback loop. Here are the docs to see what info is available when sending through mailgun. https://documentation.mailgun.com/en/latest/api-events.html#event-types https://documentation.mailgun.com/en/latest/api-events.html#...
      - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
        Most clients don't load images by default. The big providers (gmail and the like) certainly don't.
        Flimm 9y ago
        With Gmail's web interface, it's more complicated than that. Images are loaded by default, but only through a proxy: Google's servers go fetch the image for you and then serve you the image. They only do this once you open the email. So you do leak whether you opened the email, but not your IP address, browser headers, etc. Here's a blog post from 2013 about it: https://blog.filippo.io/how-the-new-gmail-image-proxy-works-and-what-this-means-for-you/ https://blog.filippo.io/how-the-new-gmail-image-proxy-works-...
        akcreek 9y ago
  - brians 9y ago
    Why would that be minimal? If I’m your competitor, I’m going to sign up my colleague, and have him report you for spam. And I’m going to loop this until you lose your mailing privileges.
  - rconti 9y ago
    Should, but isn't. I have idiots who think they have my email address sign me up for shit constantly. Don't put the onus on me to unsubscribe from some scammy crap. I've never forgotten to opt in to something I actually wanted, so the "minimal number of cases" actually applies to double-opt-in being hard. The frequent use case is stupid or malicious people spamming me with a list owned by an irresponsible owner. Which is now turning into "every MailChimp list owner except those who actively opt out of this crappy system." Ironic.
- make3 9y ago
  that never happens though
tinus_hn 9y ago
There is a guy who has a name similar to mine, who tends to enter my email address everywhere. So best case I just get his signup mails (multiple times because he doesn't understand why he doesn't get them). Worst case I'm signed up for yet another spam list. They better not be complaining that their reputation is bad because I keep reporting their unconfirmed junk. If clicking a link is too hard for you, tough.

caf 9y ago

Here's the thing, though. As a user, if I start getting your mailing list emails because someone else decided to sign me up and there was no confirmation, I'm going to mark it as spam.

Gustomaximus 9y ago
That should be a minimal number of cases, reduced further by having a big clear one click unsubscribe option. It always amazes me the business that make unsubscribing difficult. That is the real way to get placed in spam.
- caf 9y ago
  Does anyone trust the unsubscribe link in apparent spam, though?
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    Many less technical folks do. If I never signed up, I'm absolutely not clicking an unsubscribe link.
  - hashmal 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure clicking the unsubscribe button says "hey, this email address you obtained is real and active!"
    - rconti 9y ago
      That feels very "20 years ago" to me. They've got plenty of other ways. Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit careful with them but because I'm used to being signed up to lists by a handful of stupid people who don't know their email address, I can basically anticipate what regions of the world my spamlists will come from, and I generally have a good feel for what's legit or what's not. I use the unsubscribe link often for these things.
- Pharaoh2 9y ago
  Too late, enough businesses have screwed up the unsubscribe system that now I mark every mail as spam and let the spam filters take care of it. I don't care if the unsubscribe links works or not, I already have a faster path.
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  I don't care how clear the unsubscribe option is, if I didn't specifically subscribe, it gets marked as spam and reported.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  I'm not clicking an unsubscribe button on something I didn't subscribe to. I have no way of knowing if it will unsubscribe me or if it will tell the sender "Hey guys! This is a real email address! Send him more spam!"
  - inetknght 9y ago
    ...or worse: send you to an infected URL and pwn you
  - akcreek 9y ago
    Clicking unsubscribe isn't the only way to know if the email is good. If your email client loads images then it will be known if you opened the email which will also give your IP, geolocation, device type, client name, user agent, etc. Depending on your email provider if you mark it as spam that could also be known by the sender if your provider supports the complaint feedback loop. Here are the docs to see what info is available when sending through mailgun. https://documentation.mailgun.com/en/latest/api-events.html#event-types https://documentation.mailgun.com/en/latest/api-events.html#...
    - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
      Most clients don't load images by default. The big providers (gmail and the like) certainly don't.
      - Flimm 9y ago
        With Gmail's web interface, it's more complicated than that. Images are loaded by default, but only through a proxy: Google's servers go fetch the image for you and then serve you the image. They only do this once you open the email. So you do leak whether you opened the email, but not your IP address, browser headers, etc. Here's a blog post from 2013 about it: https://blog.filippo.io/how-the-new-gmail-image-proxy-works-and-what-this-means-for-you/ https://blog.filippo.io/how-the-new-gmail-image-proxy-works-...
      - akcreek 9y ago
- brians 9y ago
  Why would that be minimal? If I’m your competitor, I’m going to sign up my colleague, and have him report you for spam. And I’m going to loop this until you lose your mailing privileges.
- rconti 9y ago
  Should, but isn't. I have idiots who think they have my email address sign me up for shit constantly. Don't put the onus on me to unsubscribe from some scammy crap. I've never forgotten to opt in to something I actually wanted, so the "minimal number of cases" actually applies to double-opt-in being hard. The frequent use case is stupid or malicious people spamming me with a list owned by an irresponsible owner. Which is now turning into "every MailChimp list owner except those who actively opt out of this crappy system." Ironic.
make3 9y ago
that never happens though

tinus_hn 9y ago

There is a guy who has a name similar to mine, who tends to enter my email address everywhere. So best case I just get his signup mails (multiple times because he doesn't understand why he doesn't get them). Worst case I'm signed up for yet another spam list. They better not be complaining that their reputation is bad because I keep reporting their unconfirmed junk. If clicking a link is too hard for you, tough.