4 ms·

Good timing with Google incorrectly flagging some Docs as abusive? (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/zmz3yw/why-is-my-google-doc-locked-terms-of-servi

Good timing with Google incorrectly flagging some Docs as abusive? (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/zmz3yw/why-is-my-google-doc-locked-terms-of-service-bug https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/zmz3yw/why-is-my-...)

ttul 9y ago
When you were running an operation at Google scale, the challenge of fighting fraud is something that people who have not worked at that scale can only imagine. These guys will also encounter fraud at some point. And when they do so, I guarantee they will be no better at it than Google this.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  You state that the problem of fraud is particularly challenging "at Google scale". There is a fairly easy solution: Don't do things at Google scale. Many of these nearly unsolvable social problems we've created, such as YouTube content moderation, are manageable, or simply don't occur, outside Google scale. Which begs the question: Is doing things at Google scale really something to aspire to? Has even Google solved the problem of doing things at Google scale if they have problems they cannot solve adequately at Google scale?
  - jasonvorhe 9y ago
    Better shut down access to your service after a couple of hundred users?
    - JangoSteve 9y ago
      To be fair, Google has a little more than 200 users.
- twiss 9y ago
  You're probably right about that. But, I believe that reading and blocking private, non-shared, documents in a user's account is not the right approach to abuse. If it ever becomes necessary, Airborn OS could inspect publicly shared documents for abuse, too.
- amenghra 9y ago
  If they can't access the data, then they shouldn't be able to moderate it. There are plenty of things on the web where you can upload data and they don't use machine learning algorithms to decide if your content is "valid" or "invalid". It all depends on various tradeoffs.
  - scientistem 9y ago
    Right, google drive has a big problem with public file hosting and piracy. If the content is encrypted the safe harbor becomes trivial to preserve.
    - camus2 9y ago
      > Right, google drive has a big problem with public file hosting and piracy. I'm pretty sure this isn't a DMCA takedown case here. Google scanned the content of the file, didn't like it and removed access via an algorithm. Nobody but Google knows how it works. If the content is encrypted then it's impossible to use google docs document viewers, editors, or collaborate online on a document directly via google doc. It becomes just a dumb file host with no added value.
- hueving 9y ago
  You just made a perfect argument for why the Google design is inadequate. It centralizes way too much power to make them the target of lawyer and it makes them the arbiter of acceptability as well.
matt4077 9y ago
Yes, totally. A completely new service that has quality controls so tight they'd never use white-on-light-blue text for their website is much more likely to be reliable than the world's largest internet company, considering the latter just today had a bug affecting about 1 in 500,000 users before it was fixed two hours later.
aagha 9y ago
The worst part is that there seems to be little to no recourse. Unless your a GSuite user, you have no support number to call and have to wait until the issue resolves itself. If it does.

ttul 9y ago

When you were running an operation at Google scale, the challenge of fighting fraud is something that people who have not worked at that scale can only imagine. These guys will also encounter fraud at some point. And when they do so, I guarantee they will be no better at it than Google this.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
You state that the problem of fraud is particularly challenging "at Google scale". There is a fairly easy solution: Don't do things at Google scale. Many of these nearly unsolvable social problems we've created, such as YouTube content moderation, are manageable, or simply don't occur, outside Google scale. Which begs the question: Is doing things at Google scale really something to aspire to? Has even Google solved the problem of doing things at Google scale if they have problems they cannot solve adequately at Google scale?
- jasonvorhe 9y ago
  Better shut down access to your service after a couple of hundred users?
  - JangoSteve 9y ago
    To be fair, Google has a little more than 200 users.
twiss 9y ago
You're probably right about that. But, I believe that reading and blocking private, non-shared, documents in a user's account is not the right approach to abuse. If it ever becomes necessary, Airborn OS could inspect publicly shared documents for abuse, too.
amenghra 9y ago
If they can't access the data, then they shouldn't be able to moderate it. There are plenty of things on the web where you can upload data and they don't use machine learning algorithms to decide if your content is "valid" or "invalid". It all depends on various tradeoffs.
- scientistem 9y ago
  Right, google drive has a big problem with public file hosting and piracy. If the content is encrypted the safe harbor becomes trivial to preserve.
  - camus2 9y ago
    > Right, google drive has a big problem with public file hosting and piracy. I'm pretty sure this isn't a DMCA takedown case here. Google scanned the content of the file, didn't like it and removed access via an algorithm. Nobody but Google knows how it works. If the content is encrypted then it's impossible to use google docs document viewers, editors, or collaborate online on a document directly via google doc. It becomes just a dumb file host with no added value.
hueving 9y ago
You just made a perfect argument for why the Google design is inadequate. It centralizes way too much power to make them the target of lawyer and it makes them the arbiter of acceptability as well.

matt4077 9y ago

Yes, totally. A completely new service that has quality controls so tight they'd never use white-on-light-blue text for their website is much more likely to be reliable than the world's largest internet company, considering the latter just today had a bug affecting about 1 in 500,000 users before it was fixed two hours later.

aagha 9y ago

The worst part is that there seems to be little to no recourse. Unless your a GSuite user, you have no support number to call and have to wait until the issue resolves itself. If it does.