6 ms·

Salaries in the range of $200k/yr, plus benefits, is not big bucks?

by kobeya 9y ago

sidlls 9y ago
Not in the sense that it leads to financial independence, no. A person earning this salary is still usually one relativley minor catastrophe away from bankruptcy. Also, these salaries aren't sustained: bubbles exist, and thousands of developers won't make those salaries consistently.
- TulliusCicero 9y ago
  It can easily lead to financial independence if you're even moderately frugal instead of goldfishing your paycheck. Just look at /r/financialindependence, most posters aren't bringing in 500k+ a year or whatever, they're mostly upper-middle class professionals who live a middle-middle class lifestyle.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Financial independence means they could quit today, not have a single change in their lifestyle, and remain insulated from catastrophe (e.g. medical illness) destroying that ability. It doesn't mean $1M in the 401k and a couple of residential houses they rent out.
    - dahdum 9y ago
      It means they could quit today, and be able to comfortably live the rest of their life without earned income. It doesn't mean the exact same lifestyle - many people plan to retire early to LCOL areas. Especially in that subreddit(1). You're right about the 401k - that $1M doesn't help too much until you hit retirement age. You need substantial unearned income or enough principle to draw down to be FI. 1. FatFIRE targets $4M-$7M, and is closer to your definition.(https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/)
    - TulliusCicero 9y ago
      No, financial independence means you could live indefinitely without further earned income. For some that would mean just basic living expenses, for others it would mean covering luxuries too. You don't get to define what others are okay with living on, sorry.
      - sidlls 9y ago
        So a homeless person who chooses it is "financially independent?" At some point the phrase just doesn't have a meaning at all.
        kobeya 9y ago
        You should check out /r/vandwellers sometime.
        TulliusCicero 9y ago
        It's possible to argue that, but I'd argue that being dependent on the goodwill of others and charities for your sustenance means you're not actually independent.
- AndrewGaspar 9y ago
  If you can't make it work and make it work really well on 200k/year, you have a massive budgeting problem. Disclosure: not in the Bay area.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I agree, even in the Bay Area, actually. But that's a separate question from whether it's "big bucks".
- gt_ 9y ago
  200k/yr is one minor catastrophe away from bankruptcy? You must have some very significant additions/vices! That would be a home run for me!
francisofascii 9y ago
The article mentions..."Not every engineer is a Stanford CS grad at Google making $200,000 a year....The median salary for American IT workers is $81,000"
- sidlls 9y ago
  In SV one doesn't have to be any of those things to earn $200k/yr. It might not be super common but it's hardly an extreme outlier.
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  The median family income in the US is about $60k[1], and most Americans have less than $1000 in savings.[2] Way too many SV employees are completely out of touch with just how privileged they are. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United... [2] - https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/how-much-americans-at-have-in-their-savings-accounts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/how-much-americans-at-have-i...
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    SV costs of living is also completely out of touch with the rest of America.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    I'm not sure privileged is the right word. I mean, they have to work hard at learning the skills and keeping skills up to date. It's not just given to them. Perhaps fortunate to pick a good, growing career maybe.
    - sidlls 9y ago
      I'm sure privileged is the right word. Coming from an impoverished past, I'm certainly very privileged to have been born with the intelligence to go through a physics PhD, have had the guidance of teachers and educators who saw the potential, and am now able to earn ~$200k/yr. These are all lucky coincidences that most are not privileged to have had.

Salaries in the range of $200k/yr, plus benefits, is not big bucks?

by kobeya 9y ago

Salaries in the range of $200k/yr, plus benefits, is not big bucks?

Not in the sense that it leads to financial independence, no. A person earning this salary is still usually one relativley minor catastrophe away from bankruptcy. Also, these salaries aren't sustained: bubbles exist, and thousands of developers won't make those salaries consistently.

TulliusCicero 9y ago
It can easily lead to financial independence if you're even moderately frugal instead of goldfishing your paycheck. Just look at /r/financialindependence, most posters aren't bringing in 500k+ a year or whatever, they're mostly upper-middle class professionals who live a middle-middle class lifestyle.
- sidlls 9y ago
  Financial independence means they could quit today, not have a single change in their lifestyle, and remain insulated from catastrophe (e.g. medical illness) destroying that ability. It doesn't mean $1M in the 401k and a couple of residential houses they rent out.
  - dahdum 9y ago
    It means they could quit today, and be able to comfortably live the rest of their life without earned income. It doesn't mean the exact same lifestyle - many people plan to retire early to LCOL areas. Especially in that subreddit(1). You're right about the 401k - that $1M doesn't help too much until you hit retirement age. You need substantial unearned income or enough principle to draw down to be FI. 1. FatFIRE targets $4M-$7M, and is closer to your definition.(https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/)
  - TulliusCicero 9y ago
    No, financial independence means you could live indefinitely without further earned income. For some that would mean just basic living expenses, for others it would mean covering luxuries too. You don't get to define what others are okay with living on, sorry.
    - sidlls 9y ago
      So a homeless person who chooses it is "financially independent?" At some point the phrase just doesn't have a meaning at all.
      - kobeya 9y ago
        You should check out /r/vandwellers sometime.
      - TulliusCicero 9y ago
        It's possible to argue that, but I'd argue that being dependent on the goodwill of others and charities for your sustenance means you're not actually independent.
AndrewGaspar 9y ago
If you can't make it work and make it work really well on 200k/year, you have a massive budgeting problem. Disclosure: not in the Bay area.
- sidlls 9y ago
  I agree, even in the Bay Area, actually. But that's a separate question from whether it's "big bucks".
gt_ 9y ago
200k/yr is one minor catastrophe away from bankruptcy? You must have some very significant additions/vices! That would be a home run for me!

francisofascii 9y ago

The article mentions..."Not every engineer is a Stanford CS grad at Google making $200,000 a year....The median salary for American IT workers is $81,000"

sidlls 9y ago
In SV one doesn't have to be any of those things to earn $200k/yr. It might not be super common but it's hardly an extreme outlier.
pmoriarty 9y ago
The median family income in the US is about $60k[1], and most Americans have less than $1000 in savings.[2] Way too many SV employees are completely out of touch with just how privileged they are. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United... [2] - https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/how-much-americans-at-have-in-their-savings-accounts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/how-much-americans-at-have-i...
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  SV costs of living is also completely out of touch with the rest of America.
- Clubber 9y ago
  I'm not sure privileged is the right word. I mean, they have to work hard at learning the skills and keeping skills up to date. It's not just given to them. Perhaps fortunate to pick a good, growing career maybe.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I'm sure privileged is the right word. Coming from an impoverished past, I'm certainly very privileged to have been born with the intelligence to go through a physics PhD, have had the guidance of teachers and educators who saw the potential, and am now able to earn ~$200k/yr. These are all lucky coincidences that most are not privileged to have had.