4 ms·

So is this a new opportunity for someone to fill this need, or this is a really hard service to offer? As per other comments: doesn't seem to be much choice in

by OzzyB 9y ago

So is this a new opportunity for someone to fill this need, or this is a really hard service to offer? As per other comments: doesn't seem to be much choice in the space anymore.

danvoell 9y ago
Hard service to offer. The guy who originally built this and sold it to Google has posted on HN a few times about the intricacies of the industry.
- OzzyB 9y ago
  Just did a little sleuthing and see that it was ITA[0] that Google acquired in 2010/11. Also I found this person on HN that looks like the guy you mentioned?[1] Lots of interesting comments for bedtime reading there. In any case, It's pretty clear that this is not some small insignificant service, which makes this somewhat blazé announcement of it's imminent shutdown (just find another service!) all the more infuriating. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dmbaggett https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dmbaggett
  - itamarst 9y ago
    It's quite possible that if you have large pile of money you can still get it (https://www.itasoftware.com/ https://www.itasoftware.com/ has list of existing customers, and Sales button at bottom - I have no reason to think that customer list isn't still valid.) And at a very minimum Google is using this for Google Flights, that's what they bought ITA for. There's other companies that will sell you the data, if you have a large pile of money (Sabre, Amadeus, etc.). So it's problematic insofar as they're making it much harder for random small companies and hobbyists to get it. On the other hand, pre-acquisition this public API didn't exist. So it's not clear Google's acquisition of ITA made things worse in any way. (Disclaimer: used to work for ITA. Have no inside knowledge of how things work now.)
- FreezerburnV 9y ago
  As someone who worked with the guy being mentioned and has heard some of the stories: It is indeed INCREDIBLY difficult to create this service, for a multitude of reasons. Ones that I can remember off the top of my head: - Every company with flight information is insanely possessive of this information. It can take a long time to actually gain access to it. - The information might be stored on literal magnetic tape, so you need to have a reader for that to even access flight information. (and they're not cheap) - The rules for everything are insane, and completely different across every flight provider. Stuff like a ticket number/ID/whatever it was has complex rules built into it to understand what they mean. - The search space for figuring out an optimal flight from Point A to Point B is VERY complex. He described it as almost driving their most talented engineer insane from trying to figure out how to optimize the search and make it actually work well. (and that doesn't even take into account finding the return flight as well) I'm sure there were other things mentioned, but those are the ones I remember. If you want to try to disrupt this space, you'd have to be prepared to invest some good capital into just getting started, on top of actually physically flying to the people who can give you the information you need in order to gain access to it. It will not be easy, and it will not be quick. There's a reason ITA changed the game at the time.
tyingq 9y ago
It's hard. ITA had the best and brightest, and while they had great success with their shopping engine, no (notable) takers on their airline reservation system. It was likely a good product, but you are chasing a small pool of customers, many of them with low margins. Switching res systems is notoriously time consuming and expensive. In the meantime, Sabre, Amadeus, etc, improved their shopping engines. Not as good as the ITA offering, but "good enough", and bundled with their res system.
wbeckler 9y ago
One choice could be Fareportal, which has a full-featured API for flights with both search and booking ability. https://www.fareportallabs.com/Home/DownloadDocs#0 https://www.fareportallabs.com/Home/DownloadDocs#0 I'm happy to answer questions as I'm helping several companies switch over to Fareportal at the moment.

by OzzyB 9y ago

So is this a new opportunity for someone to fill this need, or this is a really hard service to offer? As per other comments: doesn't seem to be much choice in the space anymore.

danvoell 9y ago

Hard service to offer. The guy who originally built this and sold it to Google has posted on HN a few times about the intricacies of the industry.

OzzyB 9y ago
Just did a little sleuthing and see that it was ITA[0] that Google acquired in 2010/11. Also I found this person on HN that looks like the guy you mentioned?[1] Lots of interesting comments for bedtime reading there. In any case, It's pretty clear that this is not some small insignificant service, which makes this somewhat blazé announcement of it's imminent shutdown (just find another service!) all the more infuriating. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dmbaggett https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dmbaggett
- itamarst 9y ago
  It's quite possible that if you have large pile of money you can still get it (https://www.itasoftware.com/ https://www.itasoftware.com/ has list of existing customers, and Sales button at bottom - I have no reason to think that customer list isn't still valid.) And at a very minimum Google is using this for Google Flights, that's what they bought ITA for. There's other companies that will sell you the data, if you have a large pile of money (Sabre, Amadeus, etc.). So it's problematic insofar as they're making it much harder for random small companies and hobbyists to get it. On the other hand, pre-acquisition this public API didn't exist. So it's not clear Google's acquisition of ITA made things worse in any way. (Disclaimer: used to work for ITA. Have no inside knowledge of how things work now.)
FreezerburnV 9y ago
As someone who worked with the guy being mentioned and has heard some of the stories: It is indeed INCREDIBLY difficult to create this service, for a multitude of reasons. Ones that I can remember off the top of my head: - Every company with flight information is insanely possessive of this information. It can take a long time to actually gain access to it. - The information might be stored on literal magnetic tape, so you need to have a reader for that to even access flight information. (and they're not cheap) - The rules for everything are insane, and completely different across every flight provider. Stuff like a ticket number/ID/whatever it was has complex rules built into it to understand what they mean. - The search space for figuring out an optimal flight from Point A to Point B is VERY complex. He described it as almost driving their most talented engineer insane from trying to figure out how to optimize the search and make it actually work well. (and that doesn't even take into account finding the return flight as well) I'm sure there were other things mentioned, but those are the ones I remember. If you want to try to disrupt this space, you'd have to be prepared to invest some good capital into just getting started, on top of actually physically flying to the people who can give you the information you need in order to gain access to it. It will not be easy, and it will not be quick. There's a reason ITA changed the game at the time.

tyingq 9y ago

It's hard. ITA had the best and brightest, and while they had great success with their shopping engine, no (notable) takers on their airline reservation system. It was likely a good product, but you are chasing a small pool of customers, many of them with low margins. Switching res systems is notoriously time consuming and expensive. In the meantime, Sabre, Amadeus, etc, improved their shopping engines. Not as good as the ITA offering, but "good enough", and bundled with their res system.

wbeckler 9y ago

One choice could be Fareportal, which has a full-featured API for flights with both search and booking ability. https://www.fareportallabs.com/Home/DownloadDocs#0 https://www.fareportallabs.com/Home/DownloadDocs#0 I'm happy to answer questions as I'm helping several companies switch over to Fareportal at the moment.