5 ms·

> How many times do we have to go over this... As many times as it takes for people like yourself stop switching the subject and feigning surprised frustration

> How many times do we have to go over this... As many times as it takes for people like yourself stop switching the subject and feigning surprised frustration. It has never been about "telemetry" or "tracking". It's always been about not "phoning home" under pretense du jour. It is all about _privacy_ and _control_ over one's own computer, the very notions that's been steadily eroded to near oblivion through constant and unyielding pressure from Microsoft et al.

fooker 9y ago
>_control_ You are running several millions of lines of possibly closed source code written by others running on almost definitely closed design hardware. At some level you have to trust your platform.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  Trust is not binary. I trust Microsoft not to, say, deliberately weaken Bitlocker. I trust them to generally keep me safe and not turn on my webcam and watch me at night. It does not mean I trust them building up a profile on me. Someone in this thread said Cortana pops up coupon offers when visiting Dell.com? I do not trust this to not be abused. It is also about the overton window and shifting people's acceptance of spying, even in innocent forms like crash metrics. I've defended telemetry and used to turn it on for most machines, because it was optional. Making it mandatory is the wrong policy.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    It's on by default in 8.1, 8, 7, Vista, and XP. It's also on by default in Office since XP. When was it optional?
    - MichaelGG 9y ago
      I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're saying XP collected lists of installed apps? And had no way to disable? Citation? This is more than DrWatson/crash reporting.
msla 9y ago
It reminds me of an old /b/ wheeze: There was this memetic image called either "Cockmongler" or "Grinman". Which of those names was correct? Why, whichever one the mark didn't use, of course! If the pigeon said "Cockmongler", you had a whole rant ready to copy-paste about how it was always "Grinman" and oldfags know this and /b/ is now cancerous and yadda yadda yadda. Vice-versa in the converse, of course; the point is, the other person is always wrong. You can apply the same thing to "ship" vs "boat" or "half-staff" vs "half-mast" or "that" vs "which" or any other pair; it's a wonderful way to utterly derail any attempt at discussion involving those terms, or, possibly, the concepts they're attached to.
Crontab 9y ago
Agreed. I don't have a problem with telemetry and updates being turned on as by default. What I have a problem with is Microsoft not even giving us the option to turn these features off.
cptskippy 9y ago
Again, this isn't a new problem and it's actually better in Windows 10 than it's ever been as far as choice. If the problem is choice, not that the telemetry gathering exists then everyone really needs to reframe their argument because everyone complains first about the collection and then second about the inability to turn it off.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  How is it better than ever as far as choice? I can't turn it off!

fooker 9y ago

>_control_ You are running several millions of lines of possibly closed source code written by others running on almost definitely closed design hardware. At some level you have to trust your platform.

MichaelGG 9y ago
Trust is not binary. I trust Microsoft not to, say, deliberately weaken Bitlocker. I trust them to generally keep me safe and not turn on my webcam and watch me at night. It does not mean I trust them building up a profile on me. Someone in this thread said Cortana pops up coupon offers when visiting Dell.com? I do not trust this to not be abused. It is also about the overton window and shifting people's acceptance of spying, even in innocent forms like crash metrics. I've defended telemetry and used to turn it on for most machines, because it was optional. Making it mandatory is the wrong policy.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  It's on by default in 8.1, 8, 7, Vista, and XP. It's also on by default in Office since XP. When was it optional?
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're saying XP collected lists of installed apps? And had no way to disable? Citation? This is more than DrWatson/crash reporting.

msla 9y ago

It reminds me of an old /b/ wheeze: There was this memetic image called either "Cockmongler" or "Grinman". Which of those names was correct? Why, whichever one the mark didn't use, of course! If the pigeon said "Cockmongler", you had a whole rant ready to copy-paste about how it was always "Grinman" and oldfags know this and /b/ is now cancerous and yadda yadda yadda. Vice-versa in the converse, of course; the point is, the other person is always wrong. You can apply the same thing to "ship" vs "boat" or "half-staff" vs "half-mast" or "that" vs "which" or any other pair; it's a wonderful way to utterly derail any attempt at discussion involving those terms, or, possibly, the concepts they're attached to.

Crontab 9y ago

Agreed. I don't have a problem with telemetry and updates being turned on as by default. What I have a problem with is Microsoft not even giving us the option to turn these features off.

cptskippy 9y ago

Again, this isn't a new problem and it's actually better in Windows 10 than it's ever been as far as choice. If the problem is choice, not that the telemetry gathering exists then everyone really needs to reframe their argument because everyone complains first about the collection and then second about the inability to turn it off.

MichaelGG 9y ago
How is it better than ever as far as choice? I can't turn it off!