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It's easy to look at the raw numbers analysis and admire the invisible hand of the market guiding the economy down the middle line through an endless trail of p

It's easy to look at the raw numbers analysis and admire the invisible hand of the market guiding the economy down the middle line through an endless trail of pendulum swings. This abstraction ignores the raw human cost. These shifts ruin the people, the actual implementers of the economy.

racer-v 9y ago
If it were true that people are "ruined" because they were involved in a failed business, capitalism couldn't work. The rule is the same for any system: don't risk more than you can afford to lose. Plenty of people recover from a failed business and either start another or do something else with their lives.
- Sangermaine 9y ago
  >If it were true that people are "ruined" because they were involved in a failed business, capitalism couldn't work. You must be very young or very naive. People are ruined by failed businesses all the time. The thing you're missing is that the people continuing the churn of business creation are not the same ones who were ruined by it. If you seriously think there is no human cost when businesses fail you're simply delusional.
  - true_religion 9y ago
    I think you are reading the comment too literally. It's a generalism. If (everyone) were ruined by a failed business, capitalism wouldn't work (the way it currently does). Theoretically, if you fail at business, you are allowed to try again and again until you succeed. The consequence of repeated failure isn't so harsh that it's a once in a life-time shot.
    - AstralStorm 9y ago
      Very theoretically. Typically a medium or small business owner is bankrupt forever. This is why people gamble with VC money.
  - racer-v 9y ago
    If you seriously think there is no human cost when businesses fail you're simply delusional. There's a human cost, but your life isn't over because your business fails. I used to wonder how investors could throw themselves out of 10th floor windows after finding their shares had become worthless, whereas other folks who never owned any stock feel great. The delusion is attaching your sense of self-worth to your balance sheet. Also for future reference, your post is a rude ad-hominem attack defending a straw-man argument. If you have something to contribute, please don't mask it with hostility.
    - Sangermaine 9y ago
      >There's a human cost, but your life isn't over because your business fails. It very well might be, because losing your business can mean losing everything you have, including your home and your ability to pay for food. For many small business owners their business represents everything they have. >I used to wonder how investors could throw themselves out of 10th floor windows after finding their shares had become worthless, whereas other folks who never owned any stock feel great. Because it's not about having or not having stock, it's that those people found they had nothing left, while someone who never owned stock still has their job and their home. Imagine waking up tomorrow and learning that over night you lost all of your money and assets and you might see why this could break someone. I'm guessing you're someone who's never had to face the real possibility of homelessness or going without food because you can't afford it, and on top of that knowing there's no clear way out of that situation.
      - racer-v 9y ago
        > someone who never owned stock still has their job and their home You've completely missed the point: people who have never owned a home or even had a real job still wake up every day and experience the joy of life. It's about not basing your happiness on things that can be taken from you. > I'm guessing you're someone who's never had to face the real possibility of homelessness or going without food because you can't afford it, and on top of that knowing there's no clear way out of that situation. Again you persist with ad-hominem attacks. You have absolutely no idea who I am or what I've been through, so please don't speculate idly.
  - darawk 9y ago
    Of course there's a human cost. That's the price you pay for progress. People chose to take risks, some were rewarded, some weren't. That's life.
- komali2 9y ago
  Well, that just highlights the importance of social nets.
- ballenf 9y ago
  Educating people who may not be market experts but are considering opening a restaurant in this market is a worthy reason to research, write and publish the article. And saying they deserve to lose their life savings because they didn't "do their homework" first doesn't mean we should criticize the media for making the data more accessible to non-experts. And I'd say capitalism works because people often risk more than they can really afford to lose and make decisions that the numbers don't support. Bezos starting Amazon is a popular example of a business that no one would have predicted to be the success it is. In retrospect, however, I'd say Bezos could have started with a hot dog stand and he'd still have built it into a powerhouse based purely on his unique blend of talents and determination.
  - pm90 9y ago
    > In retrospect, however, I'd say Bezos could have started with a hot dog stand and he'd still have built it into a powerhouse based purely on his unique blend of talents and determination. Highly unlikely to have the same amount of success that Amazon has had. Not to undermine what Bezos has done. But lets' not go too far. An ecommerce website is definitely something much easier to expand and make money from that the Food and Beverage industry. Without the cashflow and expanding market create by Amazon.com it would have been incredibly hard to expand into the different markets that Amazon ultimately ended up doing.
wernercd 9y ago
What about those that don't get ruined... but get made successful? Sure some lose - and get crushed by the wheel of fate... but others win. Where else do you think the McDonald's and Outbacks come from? Remove the chance of getting ruined.. and you remove the chance of getting made and the reasons for risking it all.
mhb 9y ago
If only the alternatives weren't worse.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

racer-v 9y ago

If it were true that people are "ruined" because they were involved in a failed business, capitalism couldn't work. The rule is the same for any system: don't risk more than you can afford to lose. Plenty of people recover from a failed business and either start another or do something else with their lives.

Sangermaine 9y ago
>If it were true that people are "ruined" because they were involved in a failed business, capitalism couldn't work. You must be very young or very naive. People are ruined by failed businesses all the time. The thing you're missing is that the people continuing the churn of business creation are not the same ones who were ruined by it. If you seriously think there is no human cost when businesses fail you're simply delusional.
- true_religion 9y ago
  I think you are reading the comment too literally. It's a generalism. If (everyone) were ruined by a failed business, capitalism wouldn't work (the way it currently does). Theoretically, if you fail at business, you are allowed to try again and again until you succeed. The consequence of repeated failure isn't so harsh that it's a once in a life-time shot.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Very theoretically. Typically a medium or small business owner is bankrupt forever. This is why people gamble with VC money.
- racer-v 9y ago
  If you seriously think there is no human cost when businesses fail you're simply delusional. There's a human cost, but your life isn't over because your business fails. I used to wonder how investors could throw themselves out of 10th floor windows after finding their shares had become worthless, whereas other folks who never owned any stock feel great. The delusion is attaching your sense of self-worth to your balance sheet. Also for future reference, your post is a rude ad-hominem attack defending a straw-man argument. If you have something to contribute, please don't mask it with hostility.
  - Sangermaine 9y ago
    >There's a human cost, but your life isn't over because your business fails. It very well might be, because losing your business can mean losing everything you have, including your home and your ability to pay for food. For many small business owners their business represents everything they have. >I used to wonder how investors could throw themselves out of 10th floor windows after finding their shares had become worthless, whereas other folks who never owned any stock feel great. Because it's not about having or not having stock, it's that those people found they had nothing left, while someone who never owned stock still has their job and their home. Imagine waking up tomorrow and learning that over night you lost all of your money and assets and you might see why this could break someone. I'm guessing you're someone who's never had to face the real possibility of homelessness or going without food because you can't afford it, and on top of that knowing there's no clear way out of that situation.
    - racer-v 9y ago
      > someone who never owned stock still has their job and their home You've completely missed the point: people who have never owned a home or even had a real job still wake up every day and experience the joy of life. It's about not basing your happiness on things that can be taken from you. > I'm guessing you're someone who's never had to face the real possibility of homelessness or going without food because you can't afford it, and on top of that knowing there's no clear way out of that situation. Again you persist with ad-hominem attacks. You have absolutely no idea who I am or what I've been through, so please don't speculate idly.
- darawk 9y ago
  Of course there's a human cost. That's the price you pay for progress. People chose to take risks, some were rewarded, some weren't. That's life.
komali2 9y ago
Well, that just highlights the importance of social nets.
ballenf 9y ago
Educating people who may not be market experts but are considering opening a restaurant in this market is a worthy reason to research, write and publish the article. And saying they deserve to lose their life savings because they didn't "do their homework" first doesn't mean we should criticize the media for making the data more accessible to non-experts. And I'd say capitalism works because people often risk more than they can really afford to lose and make decisions that the numbers don't support. Bezos starting Amazon is a popular example of a business that no one would have predicted to be the success it is. In retrospect, however, I'd say Bezos could have started with a hot dog stand and he'd still have built it into a powerhouse based purely on his unique blend of talents and determination.
- pm90 9y ago
  > In retrospect, however, I'd say Bezos could have started with a hot dog stand and he'd still have built it into a powerhouse based purely on his unique blend of talents and determination. Highly unlikely to have the same amount of success that Amazon has had. Not to undermine what Bezos has done. But lets' not go too far. An ecommerce website is definitely something much easier to expand and make money from that the Food and Beverage industry. Without the cashflow and expanding market create by Amazon.com it would have been incredibly hard to expand into the different markets that Amazon ultimately ended up doing.

wernercd 9y ago

What about those that don't get ruined... but get made successful? Sure some lose - and get crushed by the wheel of fate... but others win. Where else do you think the McDonald's and Outbacks come from? Remove the chance of getting ruined.. and you remove the chance of getting made and the reasons for risking it all.

mhb 9y ago

If only the alternatives weren't worse.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]