3 ms·

I too have close family members with dyslexia. If they asked whether they'd make good programmers, I'd honestly tell them that their disability would make it ve

I too have close family members with dyslexia. If they asked whether they'd make good programmers, I'd honestly tell them that their disability would make it very challenging and frustrating. They could still do it, but their passion would have to be enough to drive them to work much harder than their colleagues to achieve the same results. I'd also recommend that they go to whatever lengths necessary to eliminate typos in their resume because it's a prime opportunity to demonstrate that they can achieve exacting precision when necessary. That being said, they are all happy in careers where character-for-character precision is not as important. Re: typos in resumes, I'm less strict than I used to be and try to focus more on work experience or other real world metrics than using typos as a proxy for programming productivity.

nmcfarl 9y ago
So I'm really really biased here. But as a programer with (mild) dyslexia, I have to say I think it's one of the best professional fields for this. We have linters, syntax highlighting editors, pretty printers, compilers and a whole suite of tools to make sure typos never go live. No other other field has these tools, and high paying professional work does in fact require "typo free work" to make it anywhere, in almost any field.° Sure in plenty of fields you can try to paper over this with process - but this just means as a dyslexic your promotions are limited by the caliber of your secretary, PA, MA, editor or whatever person fixes your work in your field. You get a good one you flourish and bad one your career dies. As I've moved to management I've had to delegate every piece of writing which is a frustrating experience, and that writing I end up doing usually ends up passing before multiple peoples eyes before being sent -- even for a simple email. This is not easier than coding - it's way harder. ° Spelling and grammar checkers help, but really are no where near as good as linters and all the other tooling.
- ballenf 9y ago
  Wow, I never thought about it that way. You have single-handedly changed the advice I'd give to my family on the issue. (Except for the resume advice above, which I think still holds.)
  - unabst 9y ago
    > but I do care if you don't bother to run it past someone else who can for editing. Even Chrome has a spell checker. Not sure the distinction here between code typos and English typos is a valid one. The OP is saying not bothering to check is the issue, not the specific errors. And this is, by definition, careless. This is a lack of caring for correctness and a lack of awareness of mistakes. It could even be considered a lack of respect, which would be a lack of professionalism, but the OP did not go there. If you have dyslexia, then a perfect resume that includes your challenges as a dyslexic would be most impressive. Employers are looking to be impressed. Don't be an unimpressive bag of excuses.
    - ballenf 9y ago
      Screening is all about finding good proxies for the skills you need for the position. Typos on resumes might be a good proxy for something, but not necessarily attention to detail (since you don't know the process the resume went through to get into its error-free state). At the extremes, the proofing could have been forced on them unwillingly by an overbearing parent or partner -or- the applicant could have painstakingly run the resume through every checker out there and begged for lots of feedback from others. It's more accurately a proxy for the applicant understanding the context of various processes and the relative importance of a task. That may or may not be a skill you need in the job. Finally, if the resume error rate is higher or lower than what you observe in the candidate's live, observed writing/coding then you should take note assuming such errors are a proxy for what you're looking for.
      - unabst 9y ago
        Typos could be anything, period. As could anything else. Bring a resume with typos and your rebuttal and see what happens. The trouble you go through to defend typos will be far more work than fixing your typos. It's mostly automatic. Reasoning doesn't excuse you from making mistakes, because excused don't make up for those mistakes. In any professional work environment, your mistakes are someone else's paid job to fix. OP is talking about attitude and mindset. The "I can reason away typos" mindset is not appealing. The "I will do anything to not make mistakes" mindset is. I mean, that is still what we are talking about here right? Being attractive to employers.
- gugagore 9y ago
  You're biased, of course, but exactly in the right way in my opinion. Personally this is a beautiful example of why representation matters. People without dyslexia (myself included) simply cannot know what people with dyslexia can and cannot do. Many thanks for sharing such an important point that I hadn't thought about before.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  This is an extremely well written post, did you delegate it?
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Nothing to say, just wanted to chime in: Awesome comment, thanks for sharing.
- kls 9y ago
  Not to mention people with dyslexia objectify words differently. This is why the exact token representation of words are less relevant in our brains than those without it. Given that in programming words are just symbols for values or conditions, we view the words of code very differently than the words that convey linguistically meaning. The structure of words in a sentence is very different than the structure of words and symbols in code. It has never presented a problem for me when coding.
kentosi 9y ago
Honest question: Would you toy with the idea of adding a small blurb right at the start of your resume stating this? I'm thinking a box that acknowledges up-front that you have diagnosed dyslexia, which would explain any spelling mistakes, but that you're still highly competent as an engineer. Not sure about others, but if I were hiring, I would welcome the honesty and instantly stop caring about any errors. Note: I'm not an employer, but I have been asked to interview candidates.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  It'd shave N% off your salary. The best time to admit something like that is after negotiation.
munificent 9y ago
I used to work with a friend who has pretty severe dyslexia. As far as I could tell, it was never an impediment. He was phenomenally productive. Aside from the occasional misspelled variable name, you would never have known about his dyslexia.
einarfd 9y ago
Your right about dyslexia adding challenges to being a programmer. I've worked with a couple of developers with dyslexia, and it is clear that being a slow reader is sometimes a challenge for them. But on the other hand, both of them are respected for their skills, doing well, and seem to be happy. So it is absolutely possible to succeed as a developer even if you have dyslexia. I do know someone that works as a high school teacher and has dyslexia. You would think that, that would be a horror show. But as far as I know, that is actually a success story. Where it works well both for her, and the school. We also have the Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg, which is dyslectic. So I would be careful about telling people what they can and can't succeed at, even if they have dyslexia.

nmcfarl 9y ago

So I'm really really biased here. But as a programer with (mild) dyslexia, I have to say I think it's one of the best professional fields for this. We have linters, syntax highlighting editors, pretty printers, compilers and a whole suite of tools to make sure typos never go live. No other other field has these tools, and high paying professional work does in fact require "typo free work" to make it anywhere, in almost any field.° Sure in plenty of fields you can try to paper over this with process - but this just means as a dyslexic your promotions are limited by the caliber of your secretary, PA, MA, editor or whatever person fixes your work in your field. You get a good one you flourish and bad one your career dies. As I've moved to management I've had to delegate every piece of writing which is a frustrating experience, and that writing I end up doing usually ends up passing before multiple peoples eyes before being sent -- even for a simple email. This is not easier than coding - it's way harder. ° Spelling and grammar checkers help, but really are no where near as good as linters and all the other tooling.

ballenf 9y ago
Wow, I never thought about it that way. You have single-handedly changed the advice I'd give to my family on the issue. (Except for the resume advice above, which I think still holds.)
- unabst 9y ago
  > but I do care if you don't bother to run it past someone else who can for editing. Even Chrome has a spell checker. Not sure the distinction here between code typos and English typos is a valid one. The OP is saying not bothering to check is the issue, not the specific errors. And this is, by definition, careless. This is a lack of caring for correctness and a lack of awareness of mistakes. It could even be considered a lack of respect, which would be a lack of professionalism, but the OP did not go there. If you have dyslexia, then a perfect resume that includes your challenges as a dyslexic would be most impressive. Employers are looking to be impressed. Don't be an unimpressive bag of excuses.
  - ballenf 9y ago
    Screening is all about finding good proxies for the skills you need for the position. Typos on resumes might be a good proxy for something, but not necessarily attention to detail (since you don't know the process the resume went through to get into its error-free state). At the extremes, the proofing could have been forced on them unwillingly by an overbearing parent or partner -or- the applicant could have painstakingly run the resume through every checker out there and begged for lots of feedback from others. It's more accurately a proxy for the applicant understanding the context of various processes and the relative importance of a task. That may or may not be a skill you need in the job. Finally, if the resume error rate is higher or lower than what you observe in the candidate's live, observed writing/coding then you should take note assuming such errors are a proxy for what you're looking for.
    - unabst 9y ago
      Typos could be anything, period. As could anything else. Bring a resume with typos and your rebuttal and see what happens. The trouble you go through to defend typos will be far more work than fixing your typos. It's mostly automatic. Reasoning doesn't excuse you from making mistakes, because excused don't make up for those mistakes. In any professional work environment, your mistakes are someone else's paid job to fix. OP is talking about attitude and mindset. The "I can reason away typos" mindset is not appealing. The "I will do anything to not make mistakes" mindset is. I mean, that is still what we are talking about here right? Being attractive to employers.
gugagore 9y ago
You're biased, of course, but exactly in the right way in my opinion. Personally this is a beautiful example of why representation matters. People without dyslexia (myself included) simply cannot know what people with dyslexia can and cannot do. Many thanks for sharing such an important point that I hadn't thought about before.
ggg9990 9y ago
This is an extremely well written post, did you delegate it?
sillysaurus3 9y ago
Nothing to say, just wanted to chime in: Awesome comment, thanks for sharing.
kls 9y ago
Not to mention people with dyslexia objectify words differently. This is why the exact token representation of words are less relevant in our brains than those without it. Given that in programming words are just symbols for values or conditions, we view the words of code very differently than the words that convey linguistically meaning. The structure of words in a sentence is very different than the structure of words and symbols in code. It has never presented a problem for me when coding.

kentosi 9y ago

Honest question: Would you toy with the idea of adding a small blurb right at the start of your resume stating this? I'm thinking a box that acknowledges up-front that you have diagnosed dyslexia, which would explain any spelling mistakes, but that you're still highly competent as an engineer. Not sure about others, but if I were hiring, I would welcome the honesty and instantly stop caring about any errors. Note: I'm not an employer, but I have been asked to interview candidates.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
It'd shave N% off your salary. The best time to admit something like that is after negotiation.

munificent 9y ago

I used to work with a friend who has pretty severe dyslexia. As far as I could tell, it was never an impediment. He was phenomenally productive. Aside from the occasional misspelled variable name, you would never have known about his dyslexia.

einarfd 9y ago

Your right about dyslexia adding challenges to being a programmer. I've worked with a couple of developers with dyslexia, and it is clear that being a slow reader is sometimes a challenge for them. But on the other hand, both of them are respected for their skills, doing well, and seem to be happy. So it is absolutely possible to succeed as a developer even if you have dyslexia. I do know someone that works as a high school teacher and has dyslexia. You would think that, that would be a horror show. But as far as I know, that is actually a success story. Where it works well both for her, and the school. We also have the Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg, which is dyslectic. So I would be careful about telling people what they can and can't succeed at, even if they have dyslexia.