3 ms·

If the market changed overnight so that nobody wanted to buy non-free cars, which for the sake of argument we'll define here as cars where the full schematics a

by avar 16y ago

If the market changed overnight so that nobody wanted to buy non-free cars, which for the sake of argument we'll define here as cars where the full schematics are under a free license like the GPL. Nothing would really change. The main effort of making a car is still making the car. Just because you can download recipes or a CAD drawing of a car chefs or car makers aren't going to go out of business. They provide a valuable service that people want to buy. Similarly, programs aren't going to write themselves. There's always going to be demand for skilled programmers, just like there's demand for skilled carpenters.

chc 16y ago
Source code is not equivalent to a schematic. Source code is equivalent to schematics, raw materials, free labor and the key to a factory. All you need to do is run it through a compiler and you've got an operational program.
- avar 16y ago
  Indeed, there aren't any manufacturing costs. So under a free software model you'd have to make money by continuing to make improved versions under contract, or offering support, hosting or other things like that. A lot of people are doing this sort of thing already, so you can make a living off it.
  - chc 16y ago
    Yes, there are lots of people who make money doing support or hosting. Those people would still exist in a world where writing software was unprofitable. There are also people who make money baking cakes and painting pictures of flower fields, and those people would also exist in a world where writing software was unprofitable. That still wouldn't make it worthwhile in general to write software except in-house for a specific business.
    - avar 16y ago
      I don't buy that. Almost all software is the equivalent of toilet paper, it's something auxiliary that should perform a service so that you can get on with your life. Just because people demand a different color toilet paper (free software) the demand doesn't go away. If everyone demanded that software be free we'd still have cellphones, search engines and games because people want that stuff, and they're going to pay for it one way or the other. Of course business models would be different, but the end result probably wouldn't be. The main difference would be that there'd be more collaboration on shared problems (like game engines), instead of each proprietary software company coming up with their own solution.
  - bad_user 16y ago
    > there aren't any manufacturing costs WTF are you talking about? Are you saying that all these nights I'm not sleeping, working 14 hours per day, not spending time with my family ... don't have a cost? Is this not manufacturing? > under a free software model you'd have to make money by continuing to make improved versions under contract, or offering support, hosting or other things like that Yeah, that's called consulting or selling complementary products that are proprietary. It sucks. I prefer to exercise my freedoms that I have in the quasi free market I'm operating in and decide for myself how I want to sell my work.
    - mkr-hn 16y ago
      That's R&D. Manufacturing would be the production of discs or the cost of the pipes used to transfer it.
    - avar 16y ago
      > Is this not manufacturing? No. Note that this whole conversation started with a car analogy, under that analogy writing software would be designing a car, not manufacturing it. In software manufacturing is distribution, which carries virtually no cost. Of course making software would still have a cost. > I prefer to exercise my freedoms [...] to sell my work. More power to you then. Note that I never said that I agreed with Stallman. I've was just responding to the fallacy in chc's post where he claimed that just because consumer demand would shift towards free software, that the entire software industry would be destroyed. That's ridiculous. Software would still be needed, and people would still need to be educated and compensated for writing and maintaining it. To assume that the market couldn't come up with a way to meet the demand and that the clock would be reset to 1920 is naïve.
      - joubert 16y ago
        Isn't "architecting"/planning a software project the design phase, and the actual coding/implementation the manufacture (manufacture means "to make")?
- quadhome 16y ago
  I thought the equivalent to the raw materials, factory, etc. was the computer.

by avar 16y ago

chc 16y ago

Source code is not equivalent to a schematic. Source code is equivalent to schematics, raw materials, free labor and the key to a factory. All you need to do is run it through a compiler and you've got an operational program.

avar 16y ago
Indeed, there aren't any manufacturing costs. So under a free software model you'd have to make money by continuing to make improved versions under contract, or offering support, hosting or other things like that. A lot of people are doing this sort of thing already, so you can make a living off it.
- chc 16y ago
  Yes, there are lots of people who make money doing support or hosting. Those people would still exist in a world where writing software was unprofitable. There are also people who make money baking cakes and painting pictures of flower fields, and those people would also exist in a world where writing software was unprofitable. That still wouldn't make it worthwhile in general to write software except in-house for a specific business.
  - avar 16y ago
    I don't buy that. Almost all software is the equivalent of toilet paper, it's something auxiliary that should perform a service so that you can get on with your life. Just because people demand a different color toilet paper (free software) the demand doesn't go away. If everyone demanded that software be free we'd still have cellphones, search engines and games because people want that stuff, and they're going to pay for it one way or the other. Of course business models would be different, but the end result probably wouldn't be. The main difference would be that there'd be more collaboration on shared problems (like game engines), instead of each proprietary software company coming up with their own solution.
- bad_user 16y ago
  > there aren't any manufacturing costs WTF are you talking about? Are you saying that all these nights I'm not sleeping, working 14 hours per day, not spending time with my family ... don't have a cost? Is this not manufacturing? > under a free software model you'd have to make money by continuing to make improved versions under contract, or offering support, hosting or other things like that Yeah, that's called consulting or selling complementary products that are proprietary. It sucks. I prefer to exercise my freedoms that I have in the quasi free market I'm operating in and decide for myself how I want to sell my work.
  - mkr-hn 16y ago
    That's R&D. Manufacturing would be the production of discs or the cost of the pipes used to transfer it.
  - avar 16y ago
    > Is this not manufacturing? No. Note that this whole conversation started with a car analogy, under that analogy writing software would be designing a car, not manufacturing it. In software manufacturing is distribution, which carries virtually no cost. Of course making software would still have a cost. > I prefer to exercise my freedoms [...] to sell my work. More power to you then. Note that I never said that I agreed with Stallman. I've was just responding to the fallacy in chc's post where he claimed that just because consumer demand would shift towards free software, that the entire software industry would be destroyed. That's ridiculous. Software would still be needed, and people would still need to be educated and compensated for writing and maintaining it. To assume that the market couldn't come up with a way to meet the demand and that the clock would be reset to 1920 is naïve.
    - joubert 16y ago
      Isn't "architecting"/planning a software project the design phase, and the actual coding/implementation the manufacture (manufacture means "to make")?
quadhome 16y ago
I thought the equivalent to the raw materials, factory, etc. was the computer.