4 ms·

Draft of a story about wildlife crime was frozen for violating Google Docs' TOS

62 points by LeoNatan25 9y ago

jboynyc 9y ago
Apparently it's not an isolated case: https://mobile.twitter.com/ismh/status/925367292346683392 https://mobile.twitter.com/ismh/status/925367292346683392 The Google Docs team claims they're on it: https://mobile.twitter.com/googledocs/status/925377864677158912 https://mobile.twitter.com/googledocs/status/925377864677158... Even so, Zeynep Tufekci sees a larger unaddressed issue: Is Docs a publishing platform? https://mobile.twitter.com/zeynep/status/925368098303160320 https://mobile.twitter.com/zeynep/status/925368098303160320
- detaro 9y ago
  Is that really "unaddressed"? People share documents publicly directly from Docs (including Google employees), it has tools to support that (e.g. you get a "light mode" warning if you access a doc with many active viewers), ...
  - jboynyc 9y ago
    Yes, of course, on the technical level it works. The legal and editorial side of it has not really been addressed. When somebody can publish arbitrary content on a Google domain, then Google pretty much has to start taking on an editorial role.
    - detaro 9y ago
      I would assume that this freezing of documents means this is already happening from Googles side, with them applying variations of the filtering they use on their other publishing platforms to answer these issues.
ProAm 9y ago
Is he a paying customer of Google Docs? Or using the free version. Dont know why the downvotes, legitimate question since he turned to twitter to seek tech support, and he is storing important documents in someone elses cloud instead of just using a normal word processor on his computer. Im curious if he is paying for that privilege or going with freemium.
j_s 9y ago
Better the document than the account! Anyone know of a Google Drive equivalent for https://github.com/jay0lee/got-your-back/wiki https://github.com/jay0lee/got-your-back/wiki, which implements backup and restore for GMail? Closest I could find was https://github.com/odeke-em/drive https://github.com/odeke-em/drive, a popular command line client. -- It appears my Google account is slated for deletion | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15234207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15234207 (Sep2017:266 comments) >My YouTube account was suspended for uploaded/embedded portions of AQ vids used for analysis for U.S. v Pfc. Manning. It appears my Google account is also slated for deletion Ask HN: Did anyone use ruinmysearchhistory and get Google account suspended today? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880008 (Jun2016:116 comments) >I think it might have something to do with the "ruin my search history" viral thing yesterday Dumped by Google | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5591133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5591133 (Apr2013:193 comments) >My data was intact save for the last thing I’d worked on–a spreadsheet containing a client’s account numbers and passwords Google account disabled for 6+ days. Some thoughts | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=354593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=354593 (Nov2008:53 comments) >I haven’t been told yet why it was disabled for a week yet, oh well…
peterwwillis 9y ago
Well, I guess I need to move all my documents out of Google Docs. Suggestions for alternatives?
- confounded 9y ago
  The Drive API allows you to export to docx, which can be converted to markdown (or whatever) via Pandoc. This works surprisingly well for me. For web-based collaboration, you could self host something like Etherpad (there are a few alternatives).
  - LeoNatan25 9y ago
    Actual desktop Office and an encrypted blob on OneDrive or Dropbox.
- soared 9y ago
  Why?
  - oblib 9y ago
    In order to "flag" a document they must be scanning it and running it through an interpreter that looks for keywords and phrases. The users experience with their documents being flagged makes it obvious that Google is scanning every document you create/store there, so the curious mind might ask "why?". Now, we can all try to believe that Google wouldn't steal from us, or turn us in to government authorities if they saw something that they believed was "unpatriotic", but what if we found out they're getting paid to do that by governments all over the world, or what if you saw some amazing new tech you've been working on suddenly appear from Google? Could be they're "doing no harm" to anyone, but it might be naive to believe it. Google is in the business of making money. That is what they do.
j_s 9y ago
This post came first, but much more discussion (45+ comments already) is currently on the front page as well: Google Docs Is Randomly Flagging Files for Violating Its Terms of Service | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15594163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15594163
pavement 9y ago
It seems to be a server-side bug, affecting a random (or at least apolitical) population of users: https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/10/31/1734232/google-docs-is-randomly-flagging-files-for-violating-its-terms-of-service https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/10/31/1734232/google-docs-i...
jabot 9y ago
Well, what did you expect? To add something constructive: There are several solutions for collaborative editing that you can host yourself, like Etherpad or gobby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby
oblib 9y ago
Just the realization that Google is scanning and evaluating everything I put in a document I make on their platform is more than reason enough to never use that service. Everyone here knows it's just snippet of code to set a flag and trigger a reaction. We should also be able to conceive what might be reacted to and how, and know that we could still be surprised with the truth being worse than we imagined.

62 points by LeoNatan25 9y ago

Apparently it's not an isolated case: https://mobile.twitter.com/ismh/status/925367292346683392 https://mobile.twitter.com/ismh/status/925367292346683392 The Google Docs team claims they're on it: https://mobile.twitter.com/googledocs/status/925377864677158912 https://mobile.twitter.com/googledocs/status/925377864677158... Even so, Zeynep Tufekci sees a larger unaddressed issue: Is Docs a publishing platform? https://mobile.twitter.com/zeynep/status/925368098303160320 https://mobile.twitter.com/zeynep/status/925368098303160320

detaro 9y ago
Is that really "unaddressed"? People share documents publicly directly from Docs (including Google employees), it has tools to support that (e.g. you get a "light mode" warning if you access a doc with many active viewers), ...
- jboynyc 9y ago
  Yes, of course, on the technical level it works. The legal and editorial side of it has not really been addressed. When somebody can publish arbitrary content on a Google domain, then Google pretty much has to start taking on an editorial role.
  - detaro 9y ago
    I would assume that this freezing of documents means this is already happening from Googles side, with them applying variations of the filtering they use on their other publishing platforms to answer these issues.

ProAm 9y ago

Is he a paying customer of Google Docs? Or using the free version. Dont know why the downvotes, legitimate question since he turned to twitter to seek tech support, and he is storing important documents in someone elses cloud instead of just using a normal word processor on his computer. Im curious if he is paying for that privilege or going with freemium.

j_s 9y ago

Better the document than the account! Anyone know of a Google Drive equivalent for https://github.com/jay0lee/got-your-back/wiki https://github.com/jay0lee/got-your-back/wiki, which implements backup and restore for GMail? Closest I could find was https://github.com/odeke-em/drive https://github.com/odeke-em/drive, a popular command line client. -- It appears my Google account is slated for deletion | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15234207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15234207 (Sep2017:266 comments) >My YouTube account was suspended for uploaded/embedded portions of AQ vids used for analysis for U.S. v Pfc. Manning. It appears my Google account is also slated for deletion Ask HN: Did anyone use ruinmysearchhistory and get Google account suspended today? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11880008 (Jun2016:116 comments) >I think it might have something to do with the "ruin my search history" viral thing yesterday Dumped by Google | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5591133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5591133 (Apr2013:193 comments) >My data was intact save for the last thing I’d worked on–a spreadsheet containing a client’s account numbers and passwords Google account disabled for 6+ days. Some thoughts | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=354593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=354593 (Nov2008:53 comments) >I haven’t been told yet why it was disabled for a week yet, oh well…

peterwwillis 9y ago

Well, I guess I need to move all my documents out of Google Docs. Suggestions for alternatives?

confounded 9y ago
The Drive API allows you to export to docx, which can be converted to markdown (or whatever) via Pandoc. This works surprisingly well for me. For web-based collaboration, you could self host something like Etherpad (there are a few alternatives).
- LeoNatan25 9y ago
  Actual desktop Office and an encrypted blob on OneDrive or Dropbox.
soared 9y ago
Why?
- oblib 9y ago
  In order to "flag" a document they must be scanning it and running it through an interpreter that looks for keywords and phrases. The users experience with their documents being flagged makes it obvious that Google is scanning every document you create/store there, so the curious mind might ask "why?". Now, we can all try to believe that Google wouldn't steal from us, or turn us in to government authorities if they saw something that they believed was "unpatriotic", but what if we found out they're getting paid to do that by governments all over the world, or what if you saw some amazing new tech you've been working on suddenly appear from Google? Could be they're "doing no harm" to anyone, but it might be naive to believe it. Google is in the business of making money. That is what they do.

j_s 9y ago

This post came first, but much more discussion (45+ comments already) is currently on the front page as well: Google Docs Is Randomly Flagging Files for Violating Its Terms of Service | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15594163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15594163

pavement 9y ago

It seems to be a server-side bug, affecting a random (or at least apolitical) population of users: https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/10/31/1734232/google-docs-is-randomly-flagging-files-for-violating-its-terms-of-service https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/10/31/1734232/google-docs-i...

jabot 9y ago

Well, what did you expect? To add something constructive: There are several solutions for collaborative editing that you can host yourself, like Etherpad or gobby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby

oblib 9y ago

Just the realization that Google is scanning and evaluating everything I put in a document I make on their platform is more than reason enough to never use that service. Everyone here knows it's just snippet of code to set a flag and trigger a reaction. We should also be able to conceive what might be reacted to and how, and know that we could still be surprised with the truth being worse than we imagined.