4 ms·

I didn't really understand his talk I think he was too abstract It is possible I am missing a lot of the background information to understand it, but still ..

I didn't really understand his talk I think he was too abstract It is possible I am missing a lot of the background information to understand it, but still .. the talk wasnt that technical, just too abstract I think he could have shown examples, code examples .. to make a more concrete statement

wellpast 9y ago
I agree it'd be nicer if he could dive down deeper into tangibles. However that can take a lot of time in a talk like this. Many of the points he makes could almost warrant a whole entire talk/article on its own. For example, he rails hard on ADTs/classes -- I think he's right here, but this point could be elaborated on at length. Still, I look at Rich as someone who: - has had many years of hard-won practical experience - whose value system is ultra-pragmatic[1] Now that doesn't mean his ideas should be taken without discretion or inspection. Even hardly-mortals like are RH are subject to the flaws of man. But if you're willing to think that he might be speaking some truths, then he gives a lot of threads that we can follow to find out for ourselves. For example, are ADTs really so horrible has he claims? That is something you can start diving into and asking yourself: What if I got rid of all my ADTs and starting programming more with maps and a la carte type validation instead of static types everywhere? That is something we can go put to practice and find out if it is really so liberating as RH is saying. [1] This is important. In tech, a lot of value systems are oriented around other things: what is cool and what is fun and what is intellectually stimulating. Versus what is most pointedly addressing our business needs.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
I'd argue this is the type of talk a 10x developer can make when he tries to talk on "his level"; as he mentions, he had 18 years of experience already when starting with Clojure, so that's the level he started at, and it's ten years later now. He could probably make simpler talks but he doesn't. A lot of the talks he does can be taken and studied (and all the underlying subjects) as a project that could entertain you for weeks.
hellofunk 9y ago
> I didn't really understand his talk I think he was too abstract Then you better stay away from another talk at the same conference, by Guy Steele [0] ! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuZkaaou0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuZkaaou0Q
- systems 9y ago
  I did watch half of it ... i left when i realized, that he will not move to another topic, he is just truly talking about notations, and comparing them, and telling stories about how they evolved I watched in anticipation, that he will use this, to make a point about clojure or programming models or techniques, but he wasnt gonna .. It was truly just a speech about notations, and i dont really care about that

wellpast 9y ago

I agree it'd be nicer if he could dive down deeper into tangibles. However that can take a lot of time in a talk like this. Many of the points he makes could almost warrant a whole entire talk/article on its own. For example, he rails hard on ADTs/classes -- I think he's right here, but this point could be elaborated on at length. Still, I look at Rich as someone who: - has had many years of hard-won practical experience - whose value system is ultra-pragmatic[1] Now that doesn't mean his ideas should be taken without discretion or inspection. Even hardly-mortals like are RH are subject to the flaws of man. But if you're willing to think that he might be speaking some truths, then he gives a lot of threads that we can follow to find out for ourselves. For example, are ADTs really so horrible has he claims? That is something you can start diving into and asking yourself: What if I got rid of all my ADTs and starting programming more with maps and a la carte type validation instead of static types everywhere? That is something we can go put to practice and find out if it is really so liberating as RH is saying. [1] This is important. In tech, a lot of value systems are oriented around other things: what is cool and what is fun and what is intellectually stimulating. Versus what is most pointedly addressing our business needs.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

I'd argue this is the type of talk a 10x developer can make when he tries to talk on "his level"; as he mentions, he had 18 years of experience already when starting with Clojure, so that's the level he started at, and it's ten years later now. He could probably make simpler talks but he doesn't. A lot of the talks he does can be taken and studied (and all the underlying subjects) as a project that could entertain you for weeks.

hellofunk 9y ago

> I didn't really understand his talk I think he was too abstract Then you better stay away from another talk at the same conference, by Guy Steele [0] ! [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuZkaaou0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuZkaaou0Q

systems 9y ago
I did watch half of it ... i left when i realized, that he will not move to another topic, he is just truly talking about notations, and comparing them, and telling stories about how they evolved I watched in anticipation, that he will use this, to make a point about clojure or programming models or techniques, but he wasnt gonna .. It was truly just a speech about notations, and i dont really care about that