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I had to leave college early due to a family thing and start working to contribute. That was eighteen years ago, and I've put in so much work because I run int

I had to leave college early due to a family thing and start working to contribute. That was eighteen years ago, and I've put in so much work because I run into attitudes like yours. Of course, in the past twenty four hours I've created an app and potential side-business from a technology stack I had absolutely no experience in any of it just to prove to a potential employer I can do 'front-end' stuff for them. The average developer can't even CSS, don't even play with that 'degrees are the ultimate arbiter' mess.

Delmania 9y ago
> Of course, in the past twenty four hours I've created an app and potential side-business from a technology stack I had absolutely no experience in any of it just to prove to a potential employer I can do 'front-end' stuff for them. This tells me you're wasting your time and potential. There are other ways to get a job.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  They didn't request it, I just didn't have any direct professional experience with React/Redux or the Python ecosystem, which are the lion's share of front-end positions in my area. I've gotten a lot of immediate 'passes' from recruiters unfortunately. Thanks for your reply though, I agree with you but then I run into reality and the need to pay bills.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
>The average developer can't even CSS, What do you mean by that? How sophisticated is it to "do CSS"? When I've dealt with it, you basically look at the inspector and at your CSS libraries of preexisting classes, and basically do a combination of attaching classes and writing new ones with custom styles until you get it all to look right. What should I be looking to learn?
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  He means do it well. There's a lot to doing CSS well, and frankly I just don't have any interest in learning all the ins and outs. It's not a fun platform to work in, it's very fiddly, and it's not exactly programming either. There's an art-form to doing amazing pixel perfect web designs, and I really respect the people who are good at it. That's not me though, and it's never going to be me.
  - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
    Yeah, the front-end designer at work basically said it's a black art.
52-6F-62 9y ago
I had run into a similar situation, though less time has passed than in your case. I've had to do similar things to find work: (started young out of interest and put it aside for a few years, then), spend time volunteering (UNOV), freelanced, voluntary freelanced for small businesses/local orgs, build pet projects, just build things in general and study. Maybe it prepares one better as an engineer than a scientist in the field — the application of a science vs the theoretical and experimental work in developing the science. --- To expand on the parent subject... I've had interviews since where I've been able to lay out some of the things I've designed and built both independently and while working for a major media company and still had interviews last hours upon hours to receive no call to even notify me that they've decided to go another route all for some odd questions with no definite answer like: Implement a poly-fill for bind by extending the Function object Or, Explain what this css does "if you don't know that's okay, but don't get it wrong – that's 'bad'.": .box { display: flex; min-width: 1024px; min-width: 52em; margin: 0; padding: 10px 15px 10px 15px; } .box--item { flex-shrink: 2 } .button { appearance: none; border-radius: 3px; background-color: blue; } .button--green { background-color: green; } In the case of the CSS, no DOM context was presented, and the class names I'm giving provide far greater context than the test I'm referring to did... Only to have every answer given either go unremarked-upon or just told "no", even though the answer could not have been a definite wrong. It was just not the preferred answer. I was also informed you would be paid more just for having a Masters or PhD, regardless of your contribution. They had graphs and were happy to show me. I'm talking smaller, trendier companies here though. Buzz words and egos seem to abound. It never made me bitter, but it just seemed so bizarre-o. Not really for me.

Delmania 9y ago

> Of course, in the past twenty four hours I've created an app and potential side-business from a technology stack I had absolutely no experience in any of it just to prove to a potential employer I can do 'front-end' stuff for them. This tells me you're wasting your time and potential. There are other ways to get a job.

wavefunction 9y ago
They didn't request it, I just didn't have any direct professional experience with React/Redux or the Python ecosystem, which are the lion's share of front-end positions in my area. I've gotten a lot of immediate 'passes' from recruiters unfortunately. Thanks for your reply though, I agree with you but then I run into reality and the need to pay bills.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

>The average developer can't even CSS, What do you mean by that? How sophisticated is it to "do CSS"? When I've dealt with it, you basically look at the inspector and at your CSS libraries of preexisting classes, and basically do a combination of attaching classes and writing new ones with custom styles until you get it all to look right. What should I be looking to learn?

CydeWeys 9y ago
He means do it well. There's a lot to doing CSS well, and frankly I just don't have any interest in learning all the ins and outs. It's not a fun platform to work in, it's very fiddly, and it's not exactly programming either. There's an art-form to doing amazing pixel perfect web designs, and I really respect the people who are good at it. That's not me though, and it's never going to be me.
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  Yeah, the front-end designer at work basically said it's a black art.

52-6F-62 9y ago

I had run into a similar situation, though less time has passed than in your case. I've had to do similar things to find work: (started young out of interest and put it aside for a few years, then), spend time volunteering (UNOV), freelanced, voluntary freelanced for small businesses/local orgs, build pet projects, just build things in general and study. Maybe it prepares one better as an engineer than a scientist in the field — the application of a science vs the theoretical and experimental work in developing the science. --- To expand on the parent subject... I've had interviews since where I've been able to lay out some of the things I've designed and built both independently and while working for a major media company and still had interviews last hours upon hours to receive no call to even notify me that they've decided to go another route all for some odd questions with no definite answer like: Implement a poly-fill for bind by extending the Function object Or, Explain what this css does "if you don't know that's okay, but don't get it wrong – that's 'bad'.": .box { display: flex; min-width: 1024px; min-width: 52em; margin: 0; padding: 10px 15px 10px 15px; } .box--item { flex-shrink: 2 } .button { appearance: none; border-radius: 3px; background-color: blue; } .button--green { background-color: green; } In the case of the CSS, no DOM context was presented, and the class names I'm giving provide far greater context than the test I'm referring to did... Only to have every answer given either go unremarked-upon or just told "no", even though the answer could not have been a definite wrong. It was just not the preferred answer. I was also informed you would be paid more just for having a Masters or PhD, regardless of your contribution. They had graphs and were happy to show me. I'm talking smaller, trendier companies here though. Buzz words and egos seem to abound. It never made me bitter, but it just seemed so bizarre-o. Not really for me.